Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

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Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by jjaquinta » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:56 pm

Instead of trying to have an interspersed conversation with bits inside of spoiler tags and bits outside of it, I thought I'd create a thread and just mark the whole thing SPOILER. (I wrote a non-spoiler review on the "Review" thread.)

So: be warned. Spoilers follow. Don't read until you have seen the film (or if you never intend to see the film, or don't mind having key plot elements spoiled.)

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My daughter and I saw the film at a special pre-screening. There were probably about 60 people there. I thought they might be doing some A/B testing to tweak some of the scenes, but they didn't really seem to be monitoring the audience. In fact, the people running it appeared almost indifferent to the effort. They barely recognized that my daughter and I were dressed up as characters from the movie (granted, they were not the best costumes, but we were the only ones who did any cosplay) and didn't seem very familiar with the movie at all.

But the movie itself.

The opening scenes, from the wide pans over Zalem, the falling garbage, to Ido plucking out the recovered eye, up to the point where he holds the newly discovered Alita up in front of the setting sun are, almost, frame for frame, like the Manga. It reminded me a lot of parts of Sin City where you could tell they were comic panels. Fortunately, it stops there. I thought Sin City was way too slavish to the comic, to the point of being detrimental to the film. So after the initial shots, it sticks to a pure cinematographic perspective, which I think is a good thing.

It is when the differences start that things get interesting. Most elements than I expected are brought in from the Manga. They are often used in the same _role_ as in the manga, but are fit into the _plot_ differently. Like Hugo riding around on a mono-cycle. It's a cool visual from a different part of the manga, but works in this setting.

Completely new inventions are relatively rare. There are really only two major ones, and I'll talk about those. Mostly I felt they either enhanced the story, or else made it more consumable for cinema goers.

The first major invention is the role of Chiren. I completely loathed this character in the Anime. She seemed kind of pointless detracted from the "cast from heaven" motif contrasting Ido and Nova. I had no empathy for her and found her weak as an antagonist. She's still somewhat unlikable in the movie, but this is more due to character flaws than personality flaws.

(If you didn't take the warning seriously above, MAJOR SPOILERS do follow.)

In the plot of the movie, Ido and Chiren were husband and wife (vaguely hinted at in the Anime) on Zalem. They had a daughter, but the daughter was disabled. (Legs paralyzed.) Instead of having just the daughter cast out from Zalem, they accompanied her and made a life in the Scrapyard. She was really good at biology bits, he was really good at cybernetic bits. They mostly made their money building super competitive motorball players. With the money they earn Ido makes a beautiful and fast body to replace his daughter's paralyzed one. But one of their "motorball creations" goes crazy, breaks into the clinic looking for drugs, and in his escape kills their daughter. This creates an irreconcilable split between Ido and Chiren as they respond to the tragedy differently. Chiren lives in denial, will do anything and everything she can to escape it, and return back to Zalem. Ido accepts it, but has difficulty processing it and letting go.

So although a significant departure from the Manga, it sets the stage for a lot of things to be used from the Manga but with a tighter plot.

The tattoo filigree arms Ido first gets for Alita in the manga becomes the body he made for his dead daughter, which he was supposed to throw away but did not because he didn't let go.

Ido gives Alita her name not from his cat, but from his daughter. Which makes it all much more poignant.The main tension in the Manga between Ido and Alita was her self determination against him wanting a dress up doll. This pivots that to being more a coming of age father/daughter thing. Much more tender, understanding, and showing good roles as he moves from sheltering her, to supporting her, to mentoring her. (Of course, I saw it with my 11 year old daughter, which means this probably hit home a lot more deeply with me than it might with others!)

One thing I thought they would drop for sure was the whole "Ido is a hunter warrior because deep down he gets a certain thrill killing people". But they kept it, in this form, in the movie. Ido became a hunter warrior to track down the motorball freak he had made that killed his daughter. He felt responsible, and as time passed and he couldn't find him, he felt responsible for all of them. He turned to vigilantism to assuage his grief at what he had done and swore off never to build freaks like that again. (Setting up a contrast with Chiren.) So I was impressed they kept this aspect of his character and even enhanced it.

So, overall, I'm OK with this departure. It allowed for many other elements to be used, and I think even enhanced the plot.

The next major departure as to do with the back story. In the movie, Mars, for no explained reason, attacked all the "floating cities" of Earth, destroying all but Zalem. This precipitated The Fall and a backsliding of technology. Alita was part of a martian brigade of bezerker body warriors sent to take down Zalem. She has flashbacks training for zero G fighting, fighting on the moon, and then assaulting Zalem via a suspension cable. In this last flashback one of those spinny-blades-of-death thingies comes down and disrupts their unit, knocking her off. It's sort of implied that's how she ended up in the scrap heap, but that leaves open a big hole since it doesn't explain how her head/core got separated from her body. (In the movie she finds the bezerker body in a nearby crashed spaceship, nicely parked in its charging station.)

So, yeah, I kind of get it. Kishiro can put "Oh, yeah, Triphares, it's a floating city, we don't go there" and leave it sit for a major chunk of the Manga, but you can't do that in a film. People want backstory so they can connect with the plot. And it might be hard to have a backstory closer to the Manga because it is either insanely complicated or we still are finding out what it was all about. On the balance of things, it doesn't affect the plot of the movie that much, so I'm ready to give it a pass. I do think it will affect the plot of any sequels, which is disappointing. But I'll withhold judgement until we see if sequels are going to be a reality or not.

On to other departures.

Borderline "major" is the role of Desty Nova. He's still a mastermind pulling the strings on all sorts of things. No specific mention of Karma. More that he's "immortal" and finds it amusing. It's hinted at that the Mars assault was specifically to kill him. Maybe some overlap there between Nova and Trinidad. But it's going to affect any possible sequel more than this movie, so I'm not so bothered with it.

There is a character named Koyomi in the Manga. There is a character called Koyomi in the film. Other than being female, they have nothing in common. I like both though.

The Damascus Blade isn't very damask. It's also purportedly "martial tech" and Alita seems to be able to route her plasma through it. She doesn't use it much, since Zapan has it most of the time. And there is a lovely shot at the end where she holds it in reverse grip fashion like we see in the Manga. It's just a pose, so it's solely there for the Manga fans!

Zapan does not die. Which sets him up as an antagonist in any sequel. He's got a lot of good dialog in the film.

Vector does die. Which is a bit of a shame, since I think it was unnecessary.

Hugo is, well, Hugo. And is probably the least changed character from the Manga. I didn't like him that much in the Manga, thought he was a dork in the Anime, but he's OK in the film.

Beyond plot...

The cinematography is REALLY well done. After the screen was some "behind the scenes" stuff, and a "live" chat with the producers, directors, and main cast members. They emphasized a lot that it was all "performance capture" rather than "motion capture", which normally I would just take as blah-blah-blah. But, really, it was. Alita never looks or acts "plastic". Like in that horrid Final Fantasy film they zoomed in at points and I'm like "oh, look, they rendered her pores too". But in this movie I was too capture to be looking for CGI flaws. The character is really ALIVE. Reflecting on it there were scenes where she's wearing bulky sweaters to cover her cyborg body. Normally you see that to save on CGI so you can use the normal actor. (Like having characters in Anime speak through megaphones so they don't have to animate the mouth.) But it's ALL CGI, so they were doing that for the character.

One point they made in the talk at the end that while the Alita character was CGI, the bulk of the sets were real. They, apparently, only did 3 days of green screen filming. Obviously somethings like when they run over skylines or leap between buildings, and backdrops, are CGI. But anything close is real. I agree with them that it helps the actors give a more genuine performance (contrast with Phantom Menace) and just makes it "feel" more real.

The performances were really good. Especially Alita and Ido. There's a lot of sensitive father/daughter stuff going on there and they capture it very well, making it real for the audiences. I must have cried about 8 times, but, then, I cry at old episodes of Star Trek. :-) So take it as you may.

The other characters were mainly there in supporting roles. They did good at that, which is all I would ask of them.

Overall I really liked it a lot. I expected to like it. But it ended up being better than I expected. But I also liked the Lord of the Rings movies. I expected an adaption, faithful to the intent of the original, but not a literal reconstruction of the original. I was willing to cut it more slack than I did, so was pleasantly surprised with how faithful it was.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Cahir » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:24 pm

Heh, thanks for the post.
Looks like an enjoyable movie to me.
Especially compared to the trailers of Captain Marvel.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by bhaal » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:46 pm

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, what about the scrapyard? there were discussion about it in the trailers it looked to clean for the thing we know in the manga.
Image

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by jjaquinta » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:49 pm

The scrapyard was very rich. A lot of detail. I think, because it was a live set, it probably wasn't as "dirty" as you can make a static drawing. But, then, "dirty" is actually really hard to do with CGI. At least up close. The distance shots, which are all CGI do look suitably shabby.

I think I would agree it is not as dystopic as in the Manga. There are kids playing street-motorball. Vendors hawking wares. General life.

The other thing to remember is that our perception of it is somewhat colored by Alita's perception of it. This is all new and amazing to her. She looks at it all with wide-eyed wonder. (Like Rapunzel leaving her tower.) There's one scene where Hugo takes her to the top of an old church to show her "the view". She looks around her at the scrapyard laid out beneath them is think's it is amazing. He points upwards since it is the view of Zalem he was talking about. But it shows the relative perceptions and how the scrapyard might seem less shabby to us watching if we are drawn in to deeply empathizing with Alita.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Martin » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:07 am

so holy shit, the head of the manga is cut off...no lost memory...mars war...

Altered Carbon SUCKED for the 20 minutes I took...awesome, huge advertising budget...that's the writer.

I'll see it thrice but you have crushed my hopes that we get to the good stuff. Hugo's brother can explain the mystery of Zalem, but save "the secret of Tiphares" as you enter the 3rd act of the second movie.

The fucking anime was fucking irrelevant 15-20 years ago. Wtf. This is a vibrant ongoing story now, Gosh dangit, I finally understand those people who complain about the movie compared to the book.

They really could have done books 1 and 2...add Alita thinking about, interested in motorball...end at hugo's death. Tease Jashugan.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:00 pm

A friend of mine offered me a free ticket to go watch the movie. I didn't accept.
I know that jjaquinta was enthusiastical about the movie from his past comments and also that he is a newbie (no offense intended), so his experience of the film has to take that into account. Eventually I will read this thread, but not now because I slept very bad last night.
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:40 pm

jjaquinta wrote:I must have cried about 8 times, but, then, I cry at old episodes of Star Trek. :-) So take it as you may.
You cried!? LOL :cheesygrin: After reading your review, I would cry watching that movie too, but for very different reasons. :frown:
My impression of your review is that the movie is so different from the manga that it can't be considered an adaptation of the manga anymore, still it has enough common elements to harm the manga image. Well, thank you for review/warning.
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Alestorm » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:55 pm

Saw the movie.
I keep seeing people repeating the statements "oh theres scenes taken straight form panels of the manga!" but I honestly don't see the point of that if the script is complete trite and integral themes are missing.

The integral theme of the internal struggle for ones own humanity is tossed out the window and substituted for an external issue with the inhuman look of Alita. Just like GItS they completely misunderstood the theming of the original.

They completely rewrote Nova and ruined him by making just some immortal guy who is bored and just wants to see people die instead of being a scientist driven mad by studying the subject of karma/fate.

The whole movie feels completely hollywoodized with cheesy dialogue, tropes and a YA feeling romance. The romance in the manga was obvious puppy dog love and was treated as such but here they make the bad choice of embracing that romance rather than just presenting it minimally.
Just about every time Alita went "HIYAA!" during an attack was extremely cringy.

Was thinking this movie was going to improve on multiple characters from the manga but it tried to fit in so much that alot of them fell flat and some have changes in character that make absolutely no sense unless you've read the manga or prequel book. (no Hugo backstory in this film)

Could go on about some of the changes that would have made this movie better but I don't want to spend more time typing this.
Overall its great eye candy with milquetoast writing.

Can't wait for the day the anime reboot comes out and this movie is completely forgotten about because its just disappointing as a fan to see Alita relegated to "Oh that movie with the creepy anime eyes".
(Oh yeah did I mention the big anime eyes could have been completely left at the door for this film? lol)

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by jjaquinta » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:38 pm

kamugin wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:00 pm
I know that jjaquinta ... is a newbie (no offense intended),
I guess I have to concede to your immense superiority since I have only been reading Alita for 20 years. (hat on heart)

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:52 am

jjaquinta wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:38 pm
I guess I have to concede to your immense superiority since I have only been reading Alita for 20 years. (hat on heart)
Me too, but sorry for that detriment. I was under that impression since you are often overly "enthusiastic".
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by jjaquinta » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:31 pm

Ha ha. You should see me post on the Alexa development slack. It is utterly true there that the more cynical you are the longer you have been around!

I try to approach things I hotly anticipate with really low expectations. I was very happy there was going to be more Alita merchandise, but, frankly, I expected the movie to be a write-off. And, in the end, it certainly had faults, but since it was better than a write-off, I was pleasantly surprised.

Next up is reading the pre-quel novel. I got it a month or so ago, but gave it to my daughter. I'm not sure how far into it she got. Now that I've seen the movie, I'll go and read it. I'm libel to be a lot more picky there since I've had my own ambitions to novelize Alita for years...

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Martin » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:32 am

I've been positive about this for years but the changes are brutal. I WISH it looked more like Sin City...

I LOOOVE Watchmen and I love THAT one big change because the actual version was always the weakest part of the story...artists make scary alien realistic was always dumb to me. These changes are brutal...not knowing her story for sooooo fricking long wasn't why I kept reading, but it certainly is the most satisfying twists in my entire pop-culture-intake life.

It is out of our hands now. I still want sequels...I'll still see it 2-3 times I hope. I walked out of Ghost in the Shell, but I wasn't disgusted I just...as a GiTS fan...I've taken in like...40-50 hours of content and certainly some of that was worse than the American movie. It just wasn't worth sticking around to finish.

I really can't imagine walking out of this I just really wanted Yugo's death as a meanigful part of the story.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Muscatel » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:53 am

Martin wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:32 am
I've been positive about this for years but the changes are brutal. I WISH it looked more like Sin City...

It is out of our hands now. I still want sequels...
Why wouldn't you just want a new anime adaptation at this point bro?

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by LunarAffair » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:26 am

****FIRST IMPRESSION REVIEW****

Just tonight saw an advance screening with a livestream afterwards of Robert Rodriguez being interviewed in Austin, TX where they were also screening the movie (thanks Alamo Drafthouse), and where apparently it was filmed--Rodriguez said the whole set is still up if anyone wants to go visit! Anyway let's get to it.

DISCLAIMER: This has been written after one viewing (I'm seeing it again next Friday) and is a bit general--to give an overview because I'm a little tired and don't want to be typing this for hours right now--but I'd happily get into spoiler details and explain some of my points a bit more if someone has a question about something. Anyway...

Saying up front that I totally loved it, and I've of course read and loved the whole manga series up until the current MC issue; I even reread the original 9 volumes and rewatched the OVA in the days leading up to today. Ok, we know this because of OP's post, but I need to emphasize that this movie is definitely not the manga--it borrows from the OVA as well--and if you've read the manga, you're going to pick up on that within the first ten minutes--but wait, don't get mad! It DOES include all of the major stuff you probably want it to include from the manga. Really, nothing important is left out, in my opinion, and the changes make sense to me.

So that's all ok, actually! It takes a lot of risks with the source material for the purpose of filling in gaps left by Kishiro. Think about it, yes we love the manga but Kishiro skips time a lot--which makes plot points sort of just...happen--and this movie makes choices so that it doesn't have to include time-skips and so that everything that happens later emerges smoothly. So, lot of additions/revisions in ABA serve to: a) create greater foundation for later plot points or b) make maybe uninteresting parts of the manga (like the source of Alita's name) more interesting or at least more emotionally compelling, or c) flesh out more of the world we've been dropped into as viewers. Kishiro apparently loved the movie as well btw. The movie really is more like manga Volumes 1 and 2 and the OVA all peppered with bits from later volumes, and sets a solid and believable foundation for 3, 4, and 5. That said, this movie is not as explicitly philosophical as the manga gets, but I do think some of the central philosophical issues in the manga are still present as underlying themes--you can find them if you think about what you're watching or what you've just seen.

As someone who really really wanted the movie to do the manga justice, I think it succeeded without being an exact copy of the manga (which to me would be adequate and satisfying, but maybe a bit shrug-worthy and predictable) or the OVA, and even--dare I say--may have improved upon some ideas via expansion. It's its own thing; Cameron and Rodriguez made something new. I think it's good to think of this as now a 3rd version of the story that combines elements from versions 1 (manga) and version 2 (OVA) to produce something that works on its own and understands its source material in addition to its own goals as an autonomous piece of work. It's a well-told cohesive story that covers a lot of character growth and development in its two hours. They found ways to make all of the risks work really well, I think. Every moment when my eyebrow started to curl and I started to get nervous ("oh...they're going to fuck it up, they're going to fuck it up!") I would just wait out my "aw/ugh...really?" for a few minutes and then eventually change my mind to, "Ok, I can totally see how they interpreted things that way and how it could work that way. I'm cool with that. That makes sense." It works really well as a movie on its own, and as its own version of the story. Everything flows really nicely too. Also, again, if you're familiar with the whole series, you'll be able to see how well they've planted seeds for future plot points such that new plot elements will feel smooth and logically consistent within the world built (and damn is it built!!) and not just spring out of nowhere. I think the important thing I want to drive home here is that the movie does take risks, but when I trusted those risks to still treat the source material honorably, I was not disappointed--I was even pleased.

I can't speak as someone unfamiliar with the source material, but I felt like the movie did a good job of making itself accessible to a general audience too. Yes moments were cheesy but nothing really took me out of the movie. Plus, there was also brutality--for a PG-13 rating I was actually surprised by how much they were able to push that at times. I still think some of the cheesiness works well in the movie, and let's face it, sometimes love really is cheesy, and there's a lot of love in this movie. The relationships are still strong and the emotional climaxes really hit home. I cried a few times, and was really moved overall by Rosa Salazar's performance. Seriously, she's incredible. The movie is compelling and gripping all the way through and, like many others have said already, it left me just wanting it to go on for another several hours. That said, I think it's good that they ended it when they did--again, the elements that evolve into future plot points are already built into the world--because this way it doesn't cram in too many plot lines from the manga (but it still gets away with incorporating motorball!) and it takes its time to build characters and emotional force. Go see Alita so we can get those sequels!!!!! Oh, and of course the CGI/performance capture and detail and 3D were fucking unbelievably sick, but we knew that. It's true that Rosa Salazar plays Alita so well that you forget she's CGI at all. Seriously can't wait to see it again. I already have tickets to see it in IMAX next Friday. Go.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by LunarAffair » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:29 am

Martin wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:32 am
I really can't imagine walking out of this I just really wanted Yugo's death as a meanigful part of the story.
Don't worry. It is a meaningful part of the story still, and IMO they fucking knocked it out of the park in terms of emotional impact.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Sam » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:04 pm

Finally saw the movie too. We are all hardcore fans, maybe others more than some but you clearly should take the movie as an adaptation to the manga even if there are a lot of materials included as is in the movie. You can take it as an interpretation of the manga. A different version of the story. The manga will always be the best version, as a book would always be for certain movie adaptations.

It was a great time for me and I think a lot of you might enjoy it as well. It's always nice to see parts of the manga to be animated.
Of course don't expect it to reproduce the manga, it can't, it's not a series, there's too much materials and plots to fill a single movie.
So if for you it shouldn't have been done due to that then don't go see it, you'll of course be disappointed.

Take it as it is and enjoy it. For me, I'll take that opportunity to share my passion with others in an easier way. Not everyone is suited for the manga.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Sam » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:06 pm

I wonder if Sergio would have liked the movie in the end.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:40 pm

Sam wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:06 pm
I wonder if Sergio would have liked the movie in the end.
Good question. Other question is if we need another version of the story. For me the answer is "perhaps": I would like to see a new animation, specially because the first one was so poor. Alita's saga is too big to fit in a single movie. Not long ago I watched the animation of Blame on Netflix. I didn't read the manga until its end but I reached far enough to know that Blame is also full of events and complexity. The guys who made the movie weren't big Hollywood hotshots with unfathomable egos, so they opted for the motto: "less is better", at least as far as movie goes. They simplified the story and made a movie that isn't better than the manga but that is good, doesn't insult t he fans and can make people become interested in reading the manga. The biggest issue regarding an adaptation is always "Who will make it?", thus, since we knew that years ago, regarding Alita's movie, we knew for sure that it would stink and indeed it does.
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by HumanRage » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:39 am

Thanks jjaquinta, that review was perfect for how i prepared myself to this movie that i expect since cameron bought the rights in the late 90s : to see a big mesh from every little tidbits stitched together, but in-universe with sounds and moving parts, and an ok plot to get the camera moving.

Haven't been to the movies in 2018, i'll think i'll go at least once this year ^^

--------

And sam, first : no thx for the gut punch to the feels reaching the bottom of the page.
Second, for all the heated exchanges i remember having with him, he would have never let it go like jjaquinta, you or i could, "taking what is to take, and don't build stomach acid on the necessary rewrites&mashups".

That was and still is my main argument, but jjaquinta worded it way better over the scope of the whole OP and maybe that would have convinced him, as Sergio most certainly would have read this thread. Lightspeed ol'crewmate.
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Sam » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:12 pm

kamugin wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:40 pm
Sam wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:06 pm
I wonder if Sergio would have liked the movie in the end.
Good question. Other question is if we need another version of the story. For me the answer is "perhaps": I would like to see a new animation, specially because the first one was so poor. Alita's saga is too big to fit in a single movie. Not long ago I watched the animation of Blame on Netflix. I didn't read the manga until its end but I reached far enough to know that Blame is also full of events and complexity. The guys who made the movie weren't big Hollywood hotshots with unfathomable egos, so they opted for the motto: "less is better", at least as far as movie goes. They simplified the story and made a movie that isn't better than the manga but that is good, doesn't insult t he fans and can make people become interested in reading the manga. The biggest issue regarding an adaptation is always "Who will make it?", thus, since we knew that years ago, regarding Alita's movie, we knew for sure that it would stink and indeed it does.
Well, I'm a huge fan of nihei's work (blame, biomega..., last ones are turning quite different compared to the beginning IMO) but I did not like the Netflix anime. You could not consider it a blame adaptation, merely an in-universe story, even though it uses lots of sequence of the manga. I wasn't insulted of course, but more like disappointed, was expecting much more. But as you said it couldn't hold in a one shot. Same here for Battle angel except that it's much better and probably with sequels as well.

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Alestorm
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Alestorm » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:34 pm

Sam wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:04 pm
Finally saw the movie too. We are all hardcore fans, maybe others more than some but you clearly should take the movie as an adaptation to the manga even if there are a lot of materials included as is in the movie. You can take it as an interpretation of the manga. A different version of the story. The manga will always be the best version, as a book would always be for certain movie adaptations.

It was a great time for me and I think a lot of you might enjoy it as well. It's always nice to see parts of the manga to be animated.
Of course don't expect it to reproduce the manga, it can't, it's not a series, there's too much materials and plots to fill a single movie.
So if for you it shouldn't have been done due to that then don't go see it, you'll of course be disappointed.

Take it as it is and enjoy it. For me, I'll take that opportunity to share my passion with others in an easier way. Not everyone is suited for the manga.
Yes at the end of the day it is just an adaptation.
But when this movie has been whats standing in the way of us getting an actual decent anime adaptation for the last 20 years then it becomes a bit more than that.
Especially when this movie is so disappointing and makes so many nonsensical changes that are completely inferior to what the source did originally in an attempt to overstuff the movie.

I honestly don't understand why you would want a sequel where Alita wants to go to Zalem when in the OG manga it was never a goal of hers in the first place and it involves a rewritten Nova.
It's either we get a potentially great anime adaptation or a sequel that we know will be watered down and diverges from the manga in favor of something more like this first movie, Can't have both (atleast not within a couple years after the sequel release bombs).

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00_unit
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by 00_unit » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:44 pm

Sam wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:04 pm
Finally saw the movie too. We are all hardcore fans, maybe others more than some but you clearly should take the movie as an adaptation to the manga even if there are a lot of materials included as is in the movie. You can take it as an interpretation of the manga. A different version of the story. The manga will always be the best version, as a book would always be for certain movie adaptations.

It was a great time for me and I think a lot of you might enjoy it as well. It's always nice to see parts of the manga to be animated.
Of course don't expect it to reproduce the manga, it can't, it's not a series, there's too much materials and plots to fill a single movie.
So if for you it shouldn't have been done due to that then don't go see it, you'll of course be disappointed.

Take it as it is and enjoy it. For me, I'll take that opportunity to share my passion with others in an easier way. Not everyone is suited for the manga.
There are some adaptation that has better changes though, such as in the book of sleeping beauty, the prince rapes the princess in her sleep which I find extremely weird and stupid that is in the original where the film changes it, or Pinocchio killing a cricket and being a huge troublemaker that also sounds really strange to me as well while in the film it was more friendly. Or How to train your Dragon where the film trilogy is much better than the book with the all amazing changes they pull off that was actually for the better it's how you do it in the end that is important and the book has 14 volumes.

Also Fantastic Mr Fox is an amazing adaptation they add so much new content to the movie, since the book is 60 pages long and all those new story elements makes the film a lot better than the book.

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Sam
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Sam » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:44 am

Alestorm wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:34 pm
I honestly don't understand why you would want a sequel where Alita wants to go to Zalem when in the OG manga it was never a goal of hers in the first place and it involves a rewritten Nova.
I don't see why you think in the sequel she might want to go to Zalem??
Spoiler:
Well, yes vector is dead (strangly enough), but she could also go to motorball as in the manga where she wants Zalem to see her, as in the manga, remember Jashugan in the movie, he is still here. Yes the rewritting of Nova is strange but this doesn't make it more different than in the beginning of the manga where you don't really know where he is. I mean, vector not dead
and then you have to develop the entire 9 book series.
You seriously think that the movie is standing in the way of getting a decent anime adaptation? If it should have been done, it would have been done already. And no one can say that in 10 years from now that we will have it or not. Unless you are preparing something ;)

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by moooV » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:03 pm

So, the day has come and I've watched it - taken the best seats in imax, of course.

Well, it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be, I'd even say it's a good movie if you're not familiar with manga at all. However, as for a manga fan it was very painful to watch for me. I feel so upset about this movie that I want to go drinking. I was even unable to do facepalms because I've had 3d glasses on.

Kamugin, go see it in an imax - it's a once in lifetime experience (since movies aren't usually displayed in cinemas after the show period ends), it's totally worth it from the visual point of view at least. The eyes are still creepy, but they look ok from some angles - the weirdest thing turned out to be the overall face proportions, not the eyes.

Btw, my wife (who is an otaku) liked the movie a lot - in her opinion it has a better plot than manga. In my opinion, they've just mixed everything up into a mess and omitted all the parts I liked the most.

My conclusion - just take it as a completely separate thing not related to manga. Yes, it has lots of panel-to-shot matches, but they're pointless since the plot is totally different and they're used in different circumstances.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Neksus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:31 am

Plot changes are ok except Nova. They totaly rewrited his character making him Sauron-like evil mastermind, directly controlling his minions. Hugo is boring and have flat motivation and cringe dialogs. Changed whole motorball team with unknown cyborgs and no MB fan had noticed it? Chiren changed her mind too fast and unreasonable, but is ok in terms of existance (giving more reasonble motivation to Ido and performing surgery on Hugo's head).
All other changes are OK, as i said. Lot of fan service and references. Most plot points of original was kept (yeah, except Nova. But let's see what they will do with that in sequel).
I realy felt that film was created with love to original. It is totaly worth to see, especialy in IMAX.

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