Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:17 am

moooV wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:03 pm
So, the day has come and I've watched it - taken the best seats in imax, of course.

Kamugin, go see it in an imax - it's a once in lifetime experience (since movies aren't usually displayed in cinemas after the show period ends), it's totally worth it from the visual point of view at least. The eyes are still creepy, but they look ok from some angles - the weirdest thing turned out to be the overall face proportions, not the eyes.

My conclusion - just take it as a completely separate thing not related to manga. Yes, it has lots of panel-to-shot matches, but they're pointless since the plot is totally different and they're used in different circumstances.
You disappointed me moooV :frown:

Guess after what you and the others have said, I'll go watch it, however my expectation is very low. Movies nowadays are all about special effects. People easily impressionable see those and fail to notice the crappy plots, like in "Avengers Infinity War". I gave up that movie when Loki gives to Thanos the Tesseract, an atifact that gives enormous power to its owner, and then tries to kill him with a knife! Thanos, a guy that had just bested Thor and the Hulk!
Only last week I yielded and watched Infinity War. Just as I expected, only visuals, little to no coherence.
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by moooV » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:09 pm

kamugin wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:17 am
Movies nowadays are all about special effects. ...... Only last week I yielded and watched Infinity War. Just as I expected, only visuals, little to no coherence
I can't stand any of Marvel/DC super hero crap too. Also, they all (+Michael Bay movies) have the same visual style, nearly the same plot, they all look cloned.

This one is different - it truly looks like a Cameron movie, has his visual style and is indeed groundbreaking in it's own way technically. I can't explain it, the image speaks for itself. I mean, it's not explosions and all that chewing gum you see in most of hollywood movies - it's deeper, it's in the picture structure, world complexity, etc. It makes a wow effect even in our age when all movies have awesome graphics.

I liked it visually a lot - not as much as an Avatar, but I did. On contrary to Avatar, I wasn't emotionally touched at all.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:59 pm

moooV wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:09 pm
This one is different - it truly looks like a Cameron movie, has his visual style and is indeed groundbreaking in it's own way technically. I can't explain it, the image speaks for itself. I mean, it's not explosions and all that chewing gum you see in most of hollywood movies - it's deeper, it's in the picture structure, world complexity, etc. It makes a wow effect even in our age when all movies have awesome graphics.

I liked it visually a lot - not as much as an Avatar, but I did. On contrary to Avatar, I wasn't emotionally touched at all.
This is only the second time you spoke about the movie and you upped the score even more. I just can't forget the manga. After 20 years of reading, it is embedded in my neurons, it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say it changed my world perspective and I often see myself comparing other manga, anime and movies to Alita in one way or another.
The movie will be released here tomorrow, I'll go watch it. I hope I don't get brain damage.

By the way, I watched Avatar too and liked it. I bought the 3D Blu-ray to watch since I missed the chance to watch it in the movies. But let's face the truth: it is totally a visual based movie. The plot is decent, but doesn't go beyond that since it is basically the same plot as "A Man Called Horse", "Little Big Man" and "Dances With Wolves".
Last edited by kamugin on Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by moooV » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:12 pm

kamugin wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:08 pm
After 20 years of reading, it is embedded in my neurons, it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say it changed my world perspective and I often see myself comparing other manga, anime and movies to Alita in one way or another
Exactly the same stuff here - my life has divided into before and after, it's also the most influencing thing I've ever had. I'd have a different set of skills, have different occupation, live in a different city, have a different wife, have different plans, etc - basically, I'd be someone else.

Again, it was _very_painful_ for me to watch, but it's ok if you try to detach from the previous experience.

Yes, I was right all along - I've always kept saying that this movie shouldn't be made at all, no matter by whom. But right now we have a decent outcome - it could have been much much worse.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Alestorm » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:21 pm

Sam wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:44 am

I don't see why you think in the sequel she might want to go to Zalem??
Literally the last scene in the movie heavily implies she wants to go up to Zalem to kick Nova's ass.
Also the whole thing about the grand champion of motorball (or w/e) getting to go up to Zalem just reinforces that.

But yeah literally ANYTHING could happen in the sequel but all I'm saying here is where the signs point to for a sequel according to this first movie isn't looking good.
Sam wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:44 am
You seriously think that the movie is standing in the way of getting a decent anime adaptation? If it should have been done, it would have been done already. And no one can say that in 10 years from now that we will have it or not. Unless you are preparing something ;)
Key word in my last post is "potentially"
I don't say that anything is for certain but the probability of getting an anime rather sooner than later rises when there isn't a sequel movie happening.

Also the fact that back in the early 2000's ADV stopped distributing the OVA anime right after Fox/Cameron acquired the rights to Alita lends credence to the matter that this movie has been standing in the way of Alita getting a proper anime.

And even if that WASN'T the case I don't think Kishiro would have green-lit an anime during the past 20 years and risk stepping on Camerons feet (since he could have started pre-production at literally any moment in the past) or even risk it if this movie gets a sequel/third movie.
People would be confused between seeing buzz for Alita Battle Angel and Battle Angel Alita at the same time.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by 00_unit » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:59 pm

Alestorm wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:21 pm
Sam wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:44 am

I don't see why you think in the sequel she might want to go to Zalem??
Literally the last scene in the movie heavily implies she wants to go up to Zalem to kick Nova's ass.
Also the whole thing about the grand champion of motorball (or w/e) getting to go up to Zalem just reinforces that.

But yeah literally ANYTHING could happen in the sequel but all I'm saying here is where the signs point to for a sequel according to this first movie isn't looking good.
Sam wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:44 am
You seriously think that the movie is standing in the way of getting a decent anime adaptation? If it should have been done, it would have been done already. And no one can say that in 10 years from now that we will have it or not. Unless you are preparing something ;)
Key word in my last post is "potentially"
I don't say that anything is for certain but the probability of getting an anime rather sooner than later rises when there isn't a sequel movie happening.

Also the fact that back in the early 2000's ADV stopped distributing the OVA anime right after Fox/Cameron acquired the rights to Alita lends credence to the matter that this movie has been standing in the way of Alita getting a proper anime.

And even if that WASN'T the case I don't think Kishiro would have green-lit an anime during the past 20 years and risk stepping on Camerons feet (since he could have started pre-production at literally any moment in the past) or even risk it if this movie gets a sequel/third movie.
People would be confused between seeing buzz for Alita Battle Angel and Battle Angel Alita at the same time.
But in Japan I don't think there would be any copyright problems, since it would be called Gunnm and technically not called battle angel at all so they would still be safe.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Alestorm » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:24 pm

00_unit wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:59 pm

But in Japan I don't think there would be any copyright problems, since it would be called Gunnm and technically not called battle angel at all so they would still be safe.
Perhaps but it would still be the same property essentially.
Also there would be problems localizing it where the studio would want it to be called Battle Angel Alita overseas to maximize profits so it gets that name recognition in places where the manga was localized like that originally.

Despite that it would still run the risk of stepping on Cameron's toes and I don't think Kishiro would greenlight it even if its called GUNNM absolutely everywhere. (people would still probably distribute it and circle it around/refer to it as Battle Angel Alita online)

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:29 pm

Alestorm wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:21 pm
Also the fact that back in the early 2000's ADV stopped distributing the OVA anime right after Fox/Cameron acquired the rights to Alita lends credence to the matter that this movie has been standing in the way of Alita getting a proper anime.

And even if that WASN'T the case I don't think Kishiro would have green-lit an anime during the past 20 years and risk stepping on Camerons feet (since he could have started pre-production at literally any moment in the past) or even risk it if this movie gets a sequel/third movie.
People would be confused between seeing buzz for Alita Battle Angel and Battle Angel Alita at the same time.
I think your hypothesis is right, at least to a certain degree. I know almost nothing about copyright legislation but I do know it has become even more draconian in the recent decades. After Kishiro sold the rights for a film to Cameron, I think any animation would have to get Cameron's approval. Thus Alita doesn't belong completely to Kishiro anymore and Cameron wouldn't allow any animation that could have his work compared to.
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Sam » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:29 am

Now that everyone is talking about precise adaptation of the manga for a movie/series/anime, I think the real question is why is that so important?
Why someone (and even me I think) would want an adaptation so correct that it could replace the manga?

I don't want something that replaces the manga, it's good enough as it is, at least I would want something that is as good but different! Even if the plot is different. And guys, be honest, if visual effects and quality wouldn't matter so much, you wouldn't be reading mangas but books. The story is an important part of the experience, but for me I always look at the drawing first if it's my taste or not and then the story, not the other way around.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Martin » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:41 am

Complaining about the plot is dumb...we'll see.

Yugo/Hugo died which I didn't think was going to happen...I see that as the most important note to end on.

Dang did they want to rush into Motorball.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:04 am

Sam wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:29 am
I don't want something that replaces the manga, it's good enough as it is, at least I would want something that is as good but different! Even if the plot is different. And guys, be honest, if visual effects and quality wouldn't matter so much, you wouldn't be reading mangas but books. The story is an important part of the experience, but for me I always look at the drawing first if it's my taste or not and then the story, not the other way around.
You missed the point. Replacing the manga was never the question, what we wanted to see was something good enough to be put alongside the manga, we wanted to see some amazing action sequences of the manga in animation and so on. This movie is the thing created to be better than the manga just because it doesn't follow it. They tried to make something "better and different" and screw up from beguinning to end.

My gosh! Two posts ago, I missed the chance to celebrate my post number 666! :twisted:
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Neksus » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:45 am

kamugin wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:04 am
They tried to make something "better and different" and screw up from beguinning to end.
Why? That movie did worse only 2 things actualy - flat Hugo and rewrited Nova (whom we almost did not see and do not know how that will be handled in sequel). Other things not better or worse, they are different but contain all the most important nuances and references of the original.
Original manga doesn't have cringe and pretentious monologs\dialogs\thought bubbles and empty posturing? A hell of a lot. Why movie can't contain such things too? It's canonical :mrgreen:

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Cahir » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 am

Neksus wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:45 am
kamugin wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:04 am
They tried to make something "better and different" and screw up from beguinning to end.
Why? That movie did worse only 2 things actualy - flat Hugo and rewrited Nova (whom we almost did not see and do not know how that will be handled in sequel). Other things not better or worse, they are different but contain all the most important nuances and references of the original.
Original manga doesn't have cringe and pretentious monologs\dialogs\thought bubbles and empty posturing? A hell of a lot. Why movie can't contain such things too? It's canonical :mrgreen:
I liked the movie, but I disagree. Alita's insecurities and Makaku had more depth in the manga. Only pretentious thing manga had was that Makaku's line about bodies and even then, it did not contradict with anything. I am not saying that the movie was pretentious.
Chiren had a BRAIN in the movie, btw.
They also did not really SHOW Chiren's change of heart. Otherwise I think many things worked and it is a fine movie. Especially liked the bar scene. It just needed more action. Don't really see a reason why RR cut action out of the script. And Nova's case is open to the interesting changes, because, well, he is Nova. He may have a clone down here and what not.

Oh, and at least I noticed that 666 thing :cheesygrin:
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Neksus » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:04 am

Cahir
Are we talking about things that movie did WRONG, or those that was changed\cut because of format and age restrictions?
Cahir wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 am
Alita's insecurities
About Hugo? They was described mostly in thought bubbles. Alita speaking with herself in the movie? No...
Cahir wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 am
and Makaku
story was totaly 18+ at any angle. I'll better get simplified PG13 movie, then just dreaming about "proper" 18+ movie

Cahir wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 am
Only pretentious thing manga had was that Makaku's line about bodies and even then, it did not contradict with anything
Lol... i see pretentious phrases and posing in each volume or even chapter.
Contradict with what? Posing and pretentions can't contradict with anything. It's just exist or not. It's exist both in manga and movie, making some dialogs silly. Int that term, movie has realy no contradictions with manga
Cahir wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 am
Chiren had a BRAIN in the movie, btw.
They also did not really SHOW Chiren's change of heart
Realy? I was so in movie that did not notice that fact. Nice catch :) In OVA she had it too... Well... Chiren's existence did some positive outcome - more adequate motivation to Ido, making surgery on Hugo's head (in manga Alita did this operation by herself not having any knowlege needed) so i can forgive that fail with her brain.
About changing her mind in the end... well there is no manga's thought bubbles :mrgreen: who knows what she was realy thinking whole movie...

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Cahir » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:14 pm

We are talking about what positive things movie LACKED, I think.

And thought bubbles are meaningless since? Also, they affected her personality and explained why. in the movie, she just asked about it two times and that was it. Btw, Alita talked to herself at least three times in the movie.

18+ about Makaku was that how she appeared and was raised there. They said that, but with less edge. I am not talking about that. In the movie, he was just repeating and repeating "flea". He lacked that "Body also makes person" thing and also why she adored Alita. So, yeah, they could also word them properly and deliver it as PG-13.

Well, if you see them, then okay, I guess :cheesygrin: I meant that, Makaku's line was the part of theme exploration, so message did not contradict it - Body really affected personality. I did not mean that "Movie contradicts the manga". I thought that it had same themes.

I liked Ido and Chiren dynamics and again, I liked the movie. Especially its pacing, even if it lacked action in the final phase. I just wanted more depth to Makaku and desperated Hugo. Its the best anime/manga adaptation anyway.
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by ^Ripper » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:31 pm

Well i just watched the movie.

Went with the mindset that it will be a very alternate storyline.
And you will need that mindset because if you want to see the manga as a live-action movie you are going to be somewhat dissapointed.

I liked the 3D A LOT, it was very nicely done. (havent seen many 3D movies so a bit biased)
The actors i liked and even the (slightly) bigger eyes didn't bother me.
That was a huge plus.

The story does feels weird chronologically and forced towards the motorball.
But the beginning was really nicely done and is close enough to the original.
Just a little gender bender on the assistent :)

I just wish they read the manga more instead of going the easy route with the anime OVA.
But it was a decent movie and not the trainwreck i feared it to be.
*cough* ghost in the shell *cough*
It's just been passed through the Hollywood mill and you know what to expect from that.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Martin » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:56 am

I'm a little disappointed in the Nova reveal/plot we got...a little MBadi, a lotta GIB inspector....I think he will ultimately be a prisoner of Zalem which hits the right notes.

I will say that Edward Norton is 10X any other actor I can think of to play Nova. He is amazing so we'll see. There is just no connection to the Nova we know, yet.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Alestorm » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:31 am

Sam wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:29 am
Now that everyone is talking about precise adaptation of the manga for a movie/series/anime, I think the real question is why is that so important?
Why someone (and even me I think) would want an adaptation so correct that it could replace the manga?

I don't want something that replaces the manga, it's good enough as it is, at least I would want something that is as good but different! Even if the plot is different. And guys, be honest, if visual effects and quality wouldn't matter so much, you wouldn't be reading mangas but books. The story is an important part of the experience, but for me I always look at the drawing first if it's my taste or not and then the story, not the other way around.
Saying an anime will replace the manga is ridiculous especially when you look at the Jojo anime and how beneficial that was for the manga.
Now Jojo and its manga is wildly popular/successful because of the anime.
Just imagine how popular the GUNNM manga could be if this movie is relatively successful and then right after an anime comes out, it would do ALOT of good for GUNNM.
But an anime won't happen for a long time if the movie is so successful that it gets a sequel, we're riding a fine line here for the best case scenario.

I don't think anyone is calling for a 1:1 carbon copy of the manga.
I would actually love if an anime adaptation would diverge and expand a bit on the manga with more stories like the whole Sonic Finger side story or more side stories during the tuned arc.
If they need to make minor changes to make things like that happen then I'd be fine with it.
I just don't want to see it completely rewriting characters, motivations and essential themes.
It'll take someone who actually understands what made the manga so great in the first place to adapt it.

At the end of the day I just don't believe a movie is the best choice for the GUNNM story since it has time constraints and the fact that it needs to wrap things up at the end.
It's a story that just can't be contained by a 2 hour movie.
A tv series or an anime is the best choice for GUNNM and an anime is probably a more likely choice (2d or 3d doesn't matter to me).

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by jjaquinta » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:48 pm

A lot of people rag on the Ghost In The Shell movie. Frankly, my daughter and I enjoyed the movie. Not awesome, but not bad. But since I knew a lot of people didn't like it, I went back, downloaded and read the original manga. It sucked. The plot jumped around. The artwork was patchy. Gratuitous nudity. And a rapid wrap up and not very sensible ending. I was sorely disappointed. I don't know what people are comparing the movie too, but it can't be the Manga.

Similarly I kept seeing "Attack on Titan" all over the stores. I thought there must be something to it. So I read the first few issue and, generally found it confusing. The characters were all drawn alike and unsympathetic. I found and watched the movie and discovered that one character I thought was female was actually male. That's how incomprehensible the artwork was to me. So I went back to the comic and read through it, initially hoping that I'd get "hooked", and eventually just reading it because I've read so much. Mostly I'm just kind of curious to see what happens, but not really motivated.

My point is this. The Alita Manga is good. It stands on it's own. A movie, as long as it is "mainstream good", will inevitably build interest in the manga. I think Alita is better source material than either Ghost in the Shell or Attack on Titan, so I hope we see a better boost and more shelf space in the book stores than it currently gets.

And, again honestly, I do think the people involved in the film did go through some of the efforts to understand the source material. Salazar, in particular, not only read the first two volumes of the comic, but colored them in. That forces a certain attention to detail and, I think, speaks to her professionalism and respect for the author's intentions. Waltz's performance I thought spoke to his understanding of the character. And the fact that Connelly transformed a loathed character into someone sympathetic speaks to hers. Rodriguez I'm on the fence about. Of the major people involved, I got the least feeling of understanding from him.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Cahir » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:42 pm

Yeah, they are comparing it to the anime-movie. I dislike that movie too. I would recommend you to watch the anime-series Stand Alone Complex.

Also, I agree about Infinity War. Almost horrible movie. They even "forced" Thanos to be an anti-villain and his fleshing out was pretty rushed (Come on, even Gamora did not believe that he cared about her. Why would I believe it), while his henchmen were generic fillers. I also heard that the sequel will be full of time-travels...
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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by ^Ripper » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 pm

jjaquinta wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:48 pm
A lot of people rag on the Ghost In The Shell movie. Frankly, my daughter and I enjoyed the movie. Not awesome, but not bad...
Well mostly because i went in with the mindset that it would follow the manga/anime closely.
While true with some scenes, which i felt were put in to make the audience recognise it.
After the iconic scenes which they did copy very nicely from the anime the story went all over the place again.
I dunno, thats how i felt when i watched it.
Having seen all the anime movies, anime series and read all the manga's i expected it to be more close to the source material.

If i watched it like i did the Alita movie i would have probably accepted it more.
Don't expect a 1:1 copy because it will be a cringefest while watching.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Abaddon » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:00 am

jjaquinta wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:48 pm
A lot of people rag on the Ghost In The Shell movie. Frankly, my daughter and I enjoyed the movie. Not awesome, but not bad. But since I knew a lot of people didn't like it, I went back, downloaded and read the original manga. It sucked. The plot jumped around. The artwork was patchy. Gratuitous nudity. And a rapid wrap up and not very sensible ending. I was sorely disappointed. I don't know what people are comparing the movie too, but it can't be the Manga.
Tomato/Tomatoes, I love the original Ghost in the Shell manga, I'm in the minority but I think the anime movies kinda ruined the series making it all "sacred" and serious by removing all the stupidity from the source material. The Ghost in The Shell movie is unwatchable, I'm sorry, it was made with an american audicence in mind, reminds me of the American version of Oldboy for some reason, just a sloppy mess.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by moooV » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:08 am

Abaddon wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:00 am
The Ghost in The Shell movie is unwatchable, I'm sorry, it was made with an american audicence in mind
I don't want to disappoint you guys, but I liked gits movie a lot. I was constantly having a thought "They've made something good out of it, finally!" while I was watching it. I don't like Scarlett Johansen at all, but she blended in perfectly there.

I've just hated all gits animes and the maga was pure trash. I've watched it several times trying to understand why it's so beloved, but couldn't find anything. I still don't understand what you guys find in it - it's very boring, but very pretentious at the same time. The movie was so far ahead of it - in an entertaining ability at least.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by kamugin » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:22 am

I saw the movie today / yesterday now, because I had to sleep a little after it to calm down and sort my feelings. I wasn't able to watch it in IMAX, like moooV suggested, because thare are no IMAX screens here in the city where I live, but, to my complete surprise, I didn't hate the movie like I was sure to, I almost liked it even. Right after Ido found Alita, the movie separates itself so much from the manga that I felt I was watching another story. Ido had been married and had a daughter, Gonzo being replaced for a black woman that is there only to fill in racial and gender quotas because she has almost no lines in the movie, Hugo being introduced so early in the plot and Ido beeing related to the making of motorball players when, in the manga, he didn't even know motorball before Alita flees away from him. My wife got the reason why Ido became a mourning ex father: since they announced the cast, I thought that Christoph Waltz was too old to play Ido, a character in his later twenties or early thirties. In the manga, the initial relationship between Ido and Alita is clearly related to the myth of Pygmalion and Galatea. Ido is making Alita to be his lover. After she rebels against the idea of being a pretty doll, he settles down with the role of a mentor and a father like figure. Cameron and Rodriguez changed that because the conservative US audience would not approve even the suggestion of love beween a thirty YO guy and a teenager (even in spite of Alita being actually over 200 YO - 300 in the film). And by doing so, they found an additional role for Chiren- Ido's ex wife. Despite Christoph Waltz being well above the age, he plays a very convincing doctor Ido, I give him that.
Rosa Salazar, or better saying, the CG animation, also plays a convincing and very human character that is not quite the Alita I know, but manages to build a feeling of emparthy between it and the spectator. Cameron/Rodriguez depiction of Alita is almost beautiful but the idiotic huge eyes that I wasn't able to forget, spoils that beauty and does no justice to Salazar's actual face. The choice of giving her entire bust the apparence of flesh was also very wrong. Putting those details aside, both bodies are beautiful and convincing. We got a lot of naked cyborg fanservice. I liked how they paid attention to the fact that the berserker body is mostly blue, purple and gray since that aren't many color illustrations of it. The glassy textures are also a nice touch. Now I understand why moooV liked the CG so much. By the other hand, the hair is a mess and never looked right to me. Yet we must take into account that Alita's hair changes quite a bit during the years, perhaps that confused the CG artists.
Hugo, in the manga, is a pipsqueak pain in the ass, too lame to deserve Alita's love, however Keean Johnson gives another life to the character making bearable the excessive importance and screen time they give to Hugo in the film. There is a problem though: the motivation for Hugo wanting to go to Zalem is unknown since there is no backgrownd about his deceased brother.
The Panzer Kunst is almost a character by itself inside the story due to its huge importance to the plot. Panzer Kunst is effectively part of Alita's persona, take it from her and we don't have Alita anymore. And the Panzer Kunst choreography in the movie is lame, really lame. Too much slow, too much generic. Nowadays Hollywood can do much better. Spider Man's and Captain America's unique fighting styles are so well depicted in the movies, so nimble, fast and energetic, so why they couldn't do the same with the Panzer Kunst? Alita (and the grinder cutter) are fucking supersonic, damn it!
Grewishka/Makaku became a flat, plain evil character, nothing more than a puppet under Nova's control. There are no black and white good or evil characters in Alita's saga. Makaku is no exception, a very cruel life made him what he was. We must remember that Alita cried when he dies. Hollywood, or the US audience, will never outgrow the childish scheme of good vs evil? Probably not since they even classify entire countries under that simplistic dichotomy.
Thus we got that depiction of Nova: the very essence of evil. Is there anybody among us that doesn't like Nova? That sees him as plain evil? Nova has as much importance as Ido in shaping Alita's persona. Nova is just another victim of the tyranny behind Tiphares/Zalem. Or, perhaps like he himself woud define, just another living being subjected to the flow of karma that is life. Trindad woud be more suited to the role of a god like evil villain, in spite of even him isn't plain evil.
Chiren/Jennifer Connelly is a character non existent in the manga, like we know very well. She gets the role of the wife that ido neve had. I don't understand why is she in the movie but since she is there she assumes part of the role that belonged to Ido being also a cyberphysician.
Vector/Mahershala Ali is what he is in the manga, so far so good, but soon we discover that he is yet another puppet to Nova. His death was premature, since Vector is of relevance in the Tuned Agent/Barjack arch.
Zapan got more development than Grewishka but in essence he is just another evil guy. Making him the owner of the Damascus Blade was a forced way to introduce that weapon so early in the plot. Ed Skrein plays a cocky Zapan but he was a good choice for the role.
About forced situations, there are a lot of them in the film: Alita and Hugo going into Kansas to provoke the hunter warriors, Alita becoming a motorball player just for fun -- worse than that: Ido helping Alita to become a player, the comple te opposite of what we see in the manga!
Motorball is in the movie just for the sake of the action scenes, for the thrill they don't manage to give. There was no time to properly develop the background of the game and its players. They left clear that if there is a sequel, it will be motorball based.
Another element they shouldn't have crammed into the movie was those flashes of Alita's past. If Gerda was shown, why not Erica instead? The battle on the Moon and the attack on Zalem, sigh! They mention more than once that there were other cities like Zalem and they were all but one destroyed by a Martian strike? What a Mess!
It is almost morning now and I am starting to become tired, yet still there are many other things to comment, however most of them are problems that we noticed from the trailers alone. Things like Scrapyard and its citizens being so clean and cheerful. Gunnm Hyper Future Vision was a product of the near future cyberpunk dystopia envisioned during the eighties and early nineties, like Ghost In The Shell, Akira, Dominion Tank Police, Eden and many other mangas that got proper anime adaptations, plus the movie Bade Runner of 1982. Scrapyard should be much like the Los Angeles shown in Blade Runner, but certainly Cameron/Rodriguez wanted to be as much original as their geniuses demands.
However in the end, it isn't a bad movie, it is much better than the usual crappy manga/anime/Japanese light novels adaptations Hollywood makes. It is a shadow of the manga, but at least it manages to be a shadow of it. People that doesn't know the manga may become interested in reading it after watching the movie. This movie was fair better than the previous Ghost In The Shell film and I am no more rooting for it to flop. The intention of making a sequel was clear, like I said before. I wish there won't be any though, but if there is, perhaps it wouldn't become all that bad.

Got myself a poster A3 size after buying the tickets, yay! :cheesygrin:

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Last edited by kamugin on Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nem aquilo a que me entrego já me traz contentamento.

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Re: Alita: Battle Angel Movie - Spoiler Thread

Post by Cahir » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:56 am

^Cheers :cheesygrin:
I liked how Ido and Chiren contrasted each other. They wanted a mentor-figure for Alita, probably, and thats why we got Gelda instead of Erica.
Abaddon wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:00 am
jjaquinta wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:48 pm
A lot of people rag on the Ghost In The Shell movie. Frankly, my daughter and I enjoyed the movie. Not awesome, but not bad. But since I knew a lot of people didn't like it, I went back, downloaded and read the original manga. It sucked. The plot jumped around. The artwork was patchy. Gratuitous nudity. And a rapid wrap up and not very sensible ending. I was sorely disappointed. I don't know what people are comparing the movie too, but it can't be the Manga.
Tomato/Tomatoes, I love the original Ghost in the Shell manga, I'm in the minority but I think the anime movies kinda ruined the series making it all "sacred" and serious by removing all the stupidity from the source material. The Ghost in The Shell movie is unwatchable, I'm sorry, it was made with an american audicence in mind, reminds me of the American version of Oldboy for some reason, just a sloppy mess.
I would not even call it serious. They are just dead. Zero emotions. While talking about emotions. What they were thinking about. I found Anime-series to be okay, because it had some emotions and some light moment, with some interesting ideas, like the name itself "Stand Alone Complex". And live-action movie was lame mostly because of the setting. It is supposed to be a future, but I thought they even lacked non-fantasy technology. Liked Batou, though. Likeable guy, as always.
moooV wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:08 am
Abaddon wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:00 am
The Ghost in The Shell movie is unwatchable, I'm sorry, it was made with an american audicence in mind
I don't want to disappoint you guys, but I liked gits movie a lot. I was constantly having a thought "They've made something good out of it, finally!" while I was watching it. I don't like Scarlett Johansen at all, but she blended in perfectly there.

I've just hated all gits animes and the maga was pure trash. I've watched it several times trying to understand why it's so beloved, but couldn't find anything. I still don't understand what you guys find in it - it's very boring, but very pretentious at the same time. The movie was so far ahead of it - in an entertaining ability at least.
I do not really like any of it. I would take Serial Experiments Lain and Texhnolyze over them anyday.
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