Why do we have to read backwards?

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Sergio Nova
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Why do we have to read backwards?

Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:12 pm

I thank you for giving us opportunity of reading such a great work. I just think you should mirror tle pages, so we could read them as we are supposed to read a Latin-based language. No problem if the kanji onomatopeias will be inverted. Once we don't read Japanese (at least, I don't)...

Here in Brazil, even the first series was published backwards. That's a lack of respect with the readers, but Brazilian manga publishers have never respected anyone. Worse, the Eastern reading is fast becoming traditional.

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Post by HumanRage » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:35 pm

Printing backward IS the lack of respect for readers ... and to the authors too.

right handed characters become left-handed, and because dialogs are like they are, not all frames can be reversed.


in fact, backward editing should be forbidden and the editors prosecuted, for altering original artistic content.

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Sergio Nova
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Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:52 pm

And I thought I was radical!! For God's sake!!!

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Batousai
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Post by Batousai » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:00 pm

I find this discussion totally pointless... but anyway, since I posess the BAA books and have also read the BAA realease from Rippers Anime, I feel the need to offer my thoughts:

Mirroring/Reversing the pages sucks a goats balls! Everything gets totally messed up. Besides, since it's of japanese origin I think we should keep the original form...

If it bothers you that much then stop reading manga...
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Post by crazyankan » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:53 am

I will never by a manga that have been mirroring/reversing the pages.
And we at rippersanime will never be mirroring our BAALO releases.

Sergio, read a couple mangas. Then you brain will adapt to read right to left.
And been reading so much so I have problems reading left to right :/
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Batousai
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Post by Batousai » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:06 am

Crazyankan, it's good you won't be reversing/mirroring the pages of BAALO, but why is the pages reversed on the original BAA releases?

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Post by crazyankan » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:37 pm

My VIZ books ain´t reversed...I think.

We started on BAALO on volume 4(volume 3 if shades version counts)
We never did the orginal version of BAA.

Ledsen att min engelska är ganska värdelös. Har säkert läst 50000 sidor manga och pluggat ganska mycket engelska. Men ändå är min engelska helt tragiskt dåligt.

Batousai, adda min msn. Då kan du få de fyra senaste kapitlerna.
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Sergio Nova
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Post by Sergio Nova » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:12 pm

It seems Batousai is anything but subtle.
It`s all right if you don`t agree with me, but it`s no right to be rude.
I`ve read mangas the Eastern way, but I still insist the natural reading is left-to-right (at least in a Latin-based language, as I had previously said).

That point that reversing the pages would be a lack of respect with the author is ridiculous. As far as I know, everything published the Western way is authorized by the original authors, even because they are paid to authorize.

Nevertheless, the fact is that I do love BAA.

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Post by Batousai » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:28 pm

Sorry if I seemed like an ass to you sergio. Yes I disagree with you, but as I stated in my reply I find this discussion somewhat pointless... Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I find this discussion ridiculous...

Crazyankan, jag har addat dig nu.
Jag tror jag överreagerade lite i min första post i denna tråd...
Last edited by Batousai on Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by beerbelly » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:15 pm

"Backwards"? That's a matter of perspective.

As you know the reality is that there exists is a different system of reading, that really, is no better or worse than ours, nor is it particularly difficult to learn. Yes, it's not traditional for us, but it doesn't even change the way you interpret what you are reading. If it works it works.

It's purely mechanics. All it effects is the way you move your eyes from one panel of images to the next. If you can master that, there is absolutely no qualitative difference. Do i enjoy something less or more because of it? Is something lost in translation because of it? Hell no.

I can see how it's a matter of preference, or accommodation, since you're being forced to learn another a foreign system...but you are reading a foreign product are you not? One could respect that fact you know.

So yes, sure some artists don't mind; some do.

But that some artists authorize it also has to do with the fact that they want to appeal to a wider western audience. Appeal -- I wouldn't say respect. And wait a second, that also means Brazillian publishers have no control over this. They are also at the mercy at the artists. So who are you even angry at then?

But anyways, this is an Asian product, please explain to me the need to westernize it. In a way I'm reading it BECAUSE it's a product of asian culture, so the less they change the original format, content, meaning, and presentation, the better.

Not to mention how it can be inconvenient to mirror images like people have said, it doesn't always work. There's something practical to it as well.

Translations absolutely help us (thanks rippersanime!!). But yeah, they're necessary, I can't read Japanese. But again, what we are talking about is something that is relatively simple to accomplish, take the time to learn and watch how it becomes second nature.

And the world as we know it won't end, trust me.

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Post by bonedaddy » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:48 pm

The authors don't have nearly as much of a say in the publishing of their manga as you'd think. It's handled by their publishers (in this case Ultra Jump), who may not always have their best interests in mind. So just because you've seen some flipped doesn't mean it's cool with the creators.

Hell, just find the old "Warriors of the Wind" Nausicaa re-cut and tell me how faithful a translation that is to English. Things are better since then, but they're not perfect.

Flipping the pages does create a lot of problems from an artistic standpoint, which, hey, may not be important to you, but ask the guy who's been sitting at a table drawing it every day for the past 10 years.

And the originals are read the same way. The pages are flipped right-to-left, but the writing (unlike, say, Hebrew) is left-to-right, like English. It's just how printing in Japan tends to work, for reasons it'd take awhile to explain.

So, sorry if you don't like it. Maybe hold up a mirror?

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Post by Batousai » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:24 pm

Most mangas I've seen in japanese are top-to-bottom, but whatev...
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Post by Sergio Nova » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:11 pm

One thing is certain: I'm a lonely voice here.

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Post by bonedaddy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:28 pm

Batousai wrote:Most mangas I've seen in japanese are top-to-bottom, but whatev...
Yeah, you're right. I'm on crack... why did I even write that? Sorry folks, retracted.


Anywho, it's never bothered me, but I was reading Hebrew and English concurrently every day from age 4-18, so forward or backward isn't a big issue for me.

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Post by crazyankan » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:31 pm

Is every other country in South America mirroring/reversing it?
Just curious.

Here is sweden we ain´t mirroring/reversing our mangas. How is´t in other countries?
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Sergio Nova
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Post by Sergio Nova » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:44 pm

Hi, crazyankan!

I have no idea about other countries in Soth America.
Here in Brazil, it's easier to have contact with Europe, USA, Japan and Russia than our neighbours.

Some people don't know, but we Brazilians speak Portuguese while all our neighbours speak Spanish. Our cultures are completely different. I daresay they aren't interested in us as well as we aren't interested in them.

Brazilian population is composed by Portuguese (obviously), native Indians, Africans, Italians, Germans, Japanese, Korean, Chinese and God knows what else.

Recently we've been receiving some Bolivians.

As you must be aware, even your queen lived in Brazil for more than twenty years. It's impressive the Portuguese she speaks, with perfect local accent.

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Post by beerbelly » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:12 am

yea ionno why i got so riled up sergio.

In Canada I know some of the english distributors like Tokyopop and Viz keep almost all of the mangas right to left these days. I remember when they used to publish them left-to-right, and in western comic book form. So as far as I know they went to the Japanese style by popular demand from fans.

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Post by Sergio Nova » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:27 pm

It makes sense.
That's a rule in the market: the client is always right.

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Post by HumanRage » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:59 am

crazyankan wrote:Is every other country in South America mirroring/reversing it?
Just curious.

Here is sweden we ain´t mirroring/reversing our mangas. How is´t in other countries?
here in france, some are reversed, and some not.
a same publisher can decide to publish GLO in reverse (and it makes me sick, because i read scanlations all over the net and several times a year) and another manga in original format ...

a sample of french GLO version :
http://gratosnet.free.fr/glenat_scandaleux/
tome 4 : notice how left handed became right handed ...
tome 5 : notice the cut on bottom of page, probably made with an axe
tome 6 : notice the switch between "onion frame top" and "dock bay" legends !!!

and we have to pay 6.80 eurs for this ... so yes, hang the publishers, with barbwire if possible

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Post by HumanRage » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:00 am

Sergio wrote:It makes sense.
That's a rule in the market: the client is always right.
unfortunately, another rule is : "the client can only buy what is available"

:/

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Sergio Nova
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Post by Sergio Nova » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:15 pm

Hello, HumanRage.

Considering what you've shown, barbwire is too gentle to them.

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Post by HumanRage » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:43 pm

:/

Every 6 months, when i go buying the new GLO volume, i have to check all the books to choose the "less worse" one ...

It just sucks :(
And of course, format is reduced, page size is a mere 85% of the original, jap, format...

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Sergio Nova
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Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:03 pm

Let's put it in simple words:
I do advocate western reading (what I've already understood is a lonely battle here), but I do not advocate resizing or incompetent/negligent work. Unfortunately, some publishers decide to put things in the market the way thjey are better to them, not to readers.

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Post by hepar » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:50 am

In Russia only one firm prints mirrored manga. Two others desided to keep it intact from the very beginning, because there was no fans to buy something completly unusual.
In fact 75% manga readers here think that mirrored stuff indeed sucks. If publisher does it, this means only disrespect and low-level quality of release.

Though I'm not catholic I demand you to burn this heretic.

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Sergio Nova
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Post by Sergio Nova » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:31 pm

If you'd like to burn me, tovarish, don't dare blame Catholics.

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