As to Erica and Gerda

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Sergio Nova
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As to Erica and Gerda

Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:49 pm

I would like to know what you guys think of that.
In Last Order volume 1, there is a very strong character who helps Yoko to cross a minefield on Mars: Erica.

The girls are in a very risky situation when they are rescued by a powerful warrior: Gerda.

I fell in love with both characters. They are strong, honest and idealists as the story had not shown yet (neither Ido Daisuke had been so strong, I insist). The narrative was very well constructed (I daresay Kishiro was inspired) and both characters seemed to me that would influence Yoko strongly.

Well, I was mistaken. Contrariwise to what I expected, the characters practically disappeared.

Am I the only one to think that?

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Post by MrFaber » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:07 am

In the first half of the phases released till now it seems that Kishiro hadn't a really clear guess of wher the story was supposed to go. It looks to me that he changed subject many time, first the goal seems to bring Salem back to order, than Alita have to find her friend, then the go up the the orbital lift and the goal seems to find a way back to Mars and Alita's past, then the issue get back on finding Lou among the brains cluste, and the zot is a diversion, and now the zot is the main busines and they have to save terrestrian from extermination... Who guess what's next?

So far Gelda and Erica are supposed to be dead in the punzer knust school extermination.

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Post by HumanRage » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:39 am

just wait for vol 20 when they finally set foot on mars, after xazi told them what she came back for in the first place :wink:
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Post by othergrunty » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:31 am

You can bet we will hear about them again.
However knowing GUNNM, i think there is the possebility that it will be revealed in a later flashback that Yoko killed Erica.

After all we know that Yoko wasn't really the strongest person when she and Erica got rescued and it was Erica who was strong and determinded.

So it seems fitting for a later storyline to reveal that when Yoko went into that special Panzerkunst school for assasinations she was ordered to kill a fellow student and this somehow turned out to be Erica.

Still it doesn't need to happen but there is neverless the possebility.

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Post by MrFaber » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:54 pm

Accordin on what the punzer knust freak that looks like the aqua knight freak says it was Gelda who pushed to give to Yoko the melchiizedek infiltration mission, if Yoko had killed Erica Gelda wouldn't be supporting to her, so i don't think so, they will, more probably show alive again. I'm wondering.. how mani volumes more will be released? I don't think they'll be that many...

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Post by Sergio Nova » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:36 pm

HumanRage wrote:just wait for vol 20 when they finally set foot on mars, after xazi told them what she came back for in the first place :wink:
What do you mean by that?
Volume 20?
Is that a joke or you are able to guess what is supposed to come?

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Post by Sergio Nova » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:37 pm

othergrunty wrote:You can bet we will hear about them again.
However knowing GUNNM, i think there is the possebility that it will be revealed in a later flashback that Yoko killed Erica.

After all we know that Yoko wasn't really the strongest person when she and Erica got rescued and it was Erica who was strong and determinded.

So it seems fitting for a later storyline to reveal that when Yoko went into that special Panzerkunst school for assasinations she was ordered to kill a fellow student and this somehow turned out to be Erica.

Still it doesn't need to happen but there is neverless the possebility.
For God's sake!!
If the story develops that way, I will certainly be disappointed.
As I said before, I love Erica, but I love Alita as well.

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Post by Sergio Nova » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:41 pm

MrFaber wrote:Accordin on what the punzer knust freak that looks like the aqua knight freak says it was Gelda who pushed to give to Yoko the melchiizedek infiltration mission, if Yoko had killed Erica Gelda wouldn't be supporting to her, so i don't think so, they will, more probably show alive again. I'm wondering.. how mani volumes more will be released? I don't think they'll be that many...
I agree with your points.
As to the character's name, both Gerda and Gelda appear.
Once the characters have mainly German names, It seems obvious that the correct should be Gerda.

Anyway, her entrance in the story is magnifical, I daresay.

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Post by HumanRage » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:35 am

Sergio wrote: What do you mean by that?
Volume 20?
Is that a joke or you are able to guess what is supposed to come?
this is not a joke but a wild guess, i think the story will not be about gally's mars previous accointances until the vol 20 :wink:
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Post by MrFaber » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:41 pm

I don't think there will be so many volumes more, i wouldn't be surprised if Kishiro will give out a quick final right after the ZOT, as he did for the original Gunnm serie and for Aqua Knight. Is there any new about? Maybe some interview from Kishiro himself.

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Post by spacey » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:23 pm

I think even Kishiro don't know how long he will continue the series ;).

The way the story develops (and especially the first ending of Gunnm and then the continuation) it does not look like he planed the story from beginning. From time to time he has totally different ideas and then the whole thing shifts ;). He made a world in which he tells different stories. With Alita as common main character. One time he left this world (with a in my eye nice but too fast ending from Gunnm) and then rediscovered it again.

Are there rumors why Kishiro made Last Order? Was it because he liked it too much to quit or was just a very good selling part he had to live on?

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Post by Chrome » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:32 pm

There's still several storylines that need a conclusion, and some haven't even started yet.

Firstly, we haven't even seen Grunthal yet. I very much doubt that the series will end before Alita goes to Mars. The other planets would also still hold some significance to the story aswell, like Saturn and Pluto for example.

Leviathan V "was never seen again". It wasn't destroyed. I say this because Melchizedek hasn't been turned off (yet), and for some reason i see the series going there at some point...

Caerula is still alive, and is a major character in the overall plot. I very much doubt she'd just dissappear - Also because Alita will go to Mars, where the Guntroll is aswell. Come to think of it, if there ever is going to be a climax in Gunnm, it'll be on Mars.

Both Erica and Gelda/Gerda (whatever) hold a very significant meaning to the main character. i very much doubt Kishiro will brush them off as 'dead' - Tzyk survived, Alita survived, it very much stands to reason that there are more survivors.

Nova is also a very important character, who will have a role to play for quite some time to come. There are some interesting sides to this one aswell - There is the possibility that Mbadi turned Nova's regeneration nanites off, considering the ban on nanotech. Mbadi would also be smart enough to assume that if he left them in there, Nova would find a way around the molecular locking codes to inhibit him.

Then there's Lou. It'll probably be a nice 2 volumes alone in seeing how Kishiro would salvage her - Would the remaining Nova's simply clone her? Or would we see her in cyborg form, which would create a whole new level of character development. I really hope Kishiro didn't simply forget her...

And Alita's brain. Will she be back, or remain as she is now - "Queen" of the robots? That'll probably be the most important storyline for the next 2 or 3 volumes.

And ZOT! Who wins? The one to win will essentially be named sovereign of their own territory. I think we can safely assume that Mbadi won't have his way, and someone not under his control will take the prize. I can easily see Zekka wanting to annoy Mbadi in exactly this way, and i doubt Toji will be squishy enough for anyone to kill him in the next 15 eons. Not to mention that Sechs has grown into his own, and will surely take the prize in any case if he should win.


Oh, and there's the most important reason why Gunnm won't be stopping any time soon. There's a live action movie coming, with Kishiro working on it. He'd be a complete douchebag if he would make that movie and then quit the manga right after it. The movie will mean a completely fresh fanbase to write for, and i doubt he'd turn down the chance to be the one who brings manga to the masses in the West.


To summarize, i very much doubt Gunnm will quit any time soon.

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Post by MrFaber » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:11 pm

Maybe all those plot will stay undeveloped, there's also the tower of Salem to be built by Vecton and Kaos, the restoration of salem to be complete, and i'm pretty sure that ladder will be put down before the end. But i really fear that in a matter of a few phases there will be something like space angels and space karate allied to put down the ladder and then they say "allright, we saved the day" and there is a quick happy end summary of what happened to the other characters, and i guess there will be a cammeo form Figure 4.

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Post by Chrome » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:56 am

As i already said, with the big live action movie coming up, it would be a ridiculously stupid move for Kishiro to suddenly stop writing Gunnm just as he gains an enormous new fanbase for the material.

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Post by MrFaber » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:29 am

Well, the movie is supposed to be released in 2009, at this rate in 2009 we will be at volume 13 maybe :D

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Post by Sergio Nova » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:46 pm

Guys, what scares me is that you do make sense.
The story, from some time now, has become sort of endless.
In this pace, Gunnm will become as endless as Batman, Spiderman and other Marvel/DC characters.

It is also true that many plots were started and had no solution.
Either Kishiro is a genius hiding a surprising development, or he is completely lost.

Other possibility (and I hate considering this) is that he does not have any other idea and, once Gunnm sells considerably all around the world, he will insist in prolonging it.

I just hope to be alive to see the conclusion, if any.

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Post by Chrome » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:47 am

The quality of his work, artistically speaking, has only gotten better. If he was simply stretching it for money's sake, his drawning would be getting noticably worse. Also, the fact that it's released rather slowly also hints to him taking his time.

Gunnm might be endless in as far as One Piece might be endless. A simple example would be Luffy, and his father and grandfather. His father is introduced, in the anime, in episode 55 (i think?), but we have no idea who he is at that point. Only some time after episode 300 do we get to know who he is, and that moment convinced me of that particular series' brilliance, really.

The same applies to Gunnm. Melchizedek and Zalem/Tiphares have been there for ages. Vilma's story surrounding the break in to Melchizedek was pretty damn good as far as wrapping up a certain storyline goes. A small part of the veil surrounding the Gunnm universe's history is lifted, and we get to know how exactly this entire situation came to be, and what Melchizedek is.

I see most of the other storylines resolved in the same manner. It might look like Kishiro doesn't know where he's going, but i think there's the possibility of him simply introducing a certain manner of controlled chaos, introducing a lot of new storylines that spring forth from existing ones (like a tree), rather than entirely new storylines being manufactured.

I see characters like Sechs becoming a staying power, a comrade in arms that Alita really needed. That also means that we have an entirely new storyline coming up from that, detailing Sechs' growth aswell as Alita's. Mbadi is the new archivillain, the head honcho in Ketheres and beyond, something that only makes sense, if you carefully read the clues in the first 9 volumes. Alita and Nova could not possibly be "alone" in their respective fields, given the knowledge that Alita is from Mars, and has been in hibernation "for quite some time" at the start of it all, for example.


In any case, i was giving the manga some strange looks in the recent volumes, but when you step back for a bit and take a good look at it, it all makes sense. All i can think of to say right now is "just wait" :)

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Post by MrFaber » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:53 am

>and what Melchizedek is.

I think they where pretty clear about it :) It's a sort of computer wich basically produces future scenarios hypotesis on a matter of statistical conclusion. The freaky part is that it gets rough data somehow directly out of conscient mind of people, and that's why people like ping wu object that Melkizedec actually doesn't foretell a thing, because his "prediction" are based on what the people basically belive, and what they belive are the predictions of Melkizedec, so it creates a circle in which Mbadi can manipulate predictions out of Melkizedec and people, getting conviced of the, subconsciusly drive the future history in the direction of the given prediction, an so doing they also keep in line furtet predictions. So basically Melkizedec turned to be a generator of willing slavery.

That's why, besically, ping wu tries to put it down, and why Super Nova put the brain of Alita in it. The first wants to put a and in this mass slavery, the secondo wants to influence humanity with the highly karma tuned brain of Alita.

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Post by bhaal » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:41 pm

you are forgoting why Kishiro end the first series of GUNNM, he say too many times he was sick(suposily mental/neourologic) at the time he was making the last volumes of GUNNM and got forced to make end the serie.
Later he heal( but her young brother is now supporting him in the making)
discard the end on GUNNM, and make last order.
i want to put more things about this , but now im in hurry, i will return later to
put more info about this.
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Post by vilma21 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:53 pm

bhaal you realy said it i dose seam at time's people forget that!!!

it is a endless storie,..no wait it's a world and it entertains the hell out of me <and most of you > so we want to read and know all about it but that world will <fact> in the future i see the
way thing's are becomeing the world of gunnm
has anyone saw the program about the plan to bluild a space ladder? it was on a few night's ago, i found it amazing .


this manga seam's like a book to what can be almost lol
its perfect so stark so merciless so plain in its beauty the absolute purity...of the true panzer kunst.

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Post by spacey » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:34 pm

@vilma: The space elevator (how its commonly called) is an idea from more than 50 years ago ;). And it even comes up outside of science fiction from time to time. The only difference in the last years are the nearly available materials (carbon nanotubes for example). This is the reason why the NASA is funding research in this direction since some years.

@bhaal: I'm very interested in informations about Koshiros motivation in this time. (Even if its probably hidden somewhere in this forum already; I did not read all :roll: )

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Post by MrFaber » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:46 am

I think the main point is if Gunnm is a good seller or not :\, if it is they could event extend until it completely lose intrest and far over that, but i don't think that Gunnm is such a good sellers.. at last here in italy almost no1 knows it, i wonder if anyone except me is reading it.. :P

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Post by bhaal » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:51 am

Why kishiro make LAST ORDER?



"GUNNM Last Order"
notice by Yukito Kishiro.
Warning
This notice is a thing for Japan.
New serialization "GUNNM Last Order" is carried in
Japan by Shueisha / ULTRAJUMP.
However, announcement in a foreign country
is unsettled currently now.
Please approve it.

To all fans.


I suspended AQUAKNIGHT series for a time, from 28th installment of ULTRAJUMP September 2000. And after about 2 months for preparation, I will start new series of GUNNM, "GUNNM Last Order" to be published at ULTRAJUMP December 2000.


To AQUAKNIGHT fans.


I am sorry for AQUAKNIGHT fans looking foward to its series, but it is suspended only for a time.
I have a lot of episodes and characters which I want to write, so I will resume AQUAKNIGHT someday.
If possible, I want to write AQUAKNIGHT and "GUNNM Last Order" at the same time.
But I cannot write two series comics a month, so please look forward to resuming someday.


About "GUNNM Last Order"


"GUNNM Last Order" is not supplementary anecdotes, but complete sequel of GUNNM.
To tell exactly, it is a new story, not after when JERU (KETHERES) turned into Nanomachine Tree in the end of GUNNM Volume 9, but after when Gally (Alita) is resurrected by Nova in SALEM(TIPHARES).
Its story is based upon the scenario of "Space Story" in the Playstation game "GUNNM memory of the Mars" of which main stage is in space.


Backstage of GUNNM


I started to draw GUNNM published at BUSSINESS JUMP in November 1990 when it was in last stage of bubble economy in Japan, and ended in March 1995 when "Tokyo subway sarin gas attack" caused great sensation.
To tell the truth, in February 1994, one year before the end of GUNNM, "an affair" happened to me, and I was utterly dejected by it.
I cannot say the details, but its great shock almost disabled me to continue GUNNM series, both in mental and physical aspect.
But GUNNM series was not ended. Responsibility made me grit my teeth and continue to draw it.
If you read GUNNM in BUSSINESS JUMP then, you know GUNNM series was reduced to once a month from biweekly, and number of pages was not constant.
In the summer of 1994, at the meeting with chief editor of BUSSINESS JUMP, I told that I could not continue GUNNM series for a long time and wanted to end it early next year.
At that time, I already had a concept of "Space Story" that Gally (Alita) goes to space through SALEM(TIPHARES) and JERU (KETHERES). So as a creator, it was regretful.
But as a man, it was a limit.
In the early spring of 1995, I struugled to write last installment of GUNNM series. I changed its plot at the eleventh hour and ended GUNNM series with the last episode of "SALEM(TIPHARES) Crash".
I hated even to remember GUNNM for a while, but in the autumn of 1995, I thoughtby other media I might be able to write "Space Story" of my regret. So I made a plan of "role playing game of GUNNM" and had a meeting with game maker.
This plan became Playstation game "GUNNM memory of the Mars" after.
And in the spring of 1996, I painted illustrations for GUNNM Novels, and at that time, my damage that I felt when GUNNM ended was fairy eased.
And I wrote 3 supplementary anecdotes of GUNNM from late of 1996 to the end of 1997.
"GUNNM memory of the Mars" was planned to be released in 1997 when supplementary anecdotes of GUNNM was going, but it was delayed to next year, 1998.
And besides, some troubles happened in the backstage before its release, I felt a great regret again.
From the end of 1998, publication of "GUNNM delux books" which was a nickname of "GUNNM complete edition" started.
Its publication was a promiss of Mr.Tomita (chief editor of ULTRAJUMP) from ULTRAJUMP had been launched. And it was also a project that realize his ambition. He had wanted to publish books with CD-ROM for a long time.
Finally, It was published not with CD-ROM, but with DVD because of changes of the times.
And this publication became a trigger for me to determine to write "Space Story of my regret".


Last chance


It was last year, the end of 1999 that I told Mr.Tomita that I wanted to write
"Space Story" of GUNNM, that is, "GUNNM Last Order".
At that time, being delayed sometimes because of my 3DCG works for jackets, GUNNM complete edition volume 1 to 5 had been published and there was only last volume 6 left.
Now, my damage that I felt when GUNNM ended was finally eased, the only reason prevents me from writing "Space Story of my regrets" is neccesity to rewrite the ending which I already wrote.
It is impossible to add new volume to GUNNM Comics which have the ending already.
But starting from "GUNNM complete edition" which have time series episodes of supplementary anecdotes, I thought it might be possible to write a new history. It seemed me that publication of "GUNNM complete edition" was the last chance to write "Space Story of my regrets".


Time to clear my regrets


In this way, I suspended AQUAKNIGHT series at volume 3, and determined to start "GUNNM Last Order".
"Last Order" is the codename of Gally (Alita) that is given in the scenario of the game "GUNNM Memory of the Mars".
At first, I planned to write according faithfully to the scenario of the game. But now, in my mind, that scenario is being resolved into component parts and swirling.
Completely new characters, new ideas, new themas are coming into my mind one after another and accumulating, even the author cannot forecast the ending of this new story.
So, even if you played the game already, you will be sure to enjoy it.


Changing and unchangeable things


But some old fans may anticipate about it.
They may think, " May Yukito Kishiro write a much more moving new story than existing GUNNM, having thrown its ending away ? "
To tell honestly, I don't know.
I have to just do it.
Five years have passed till GUNNM ended, and the times have changed.
If you were a reader of BUSSINESS JUMP when GUNNM series was going, you must have grown up proportionaly.
I and my surroundings have changed, too.
My style of drawing and finishing have changed, too.
So, "GUNNM Last Order" must have different tastes from existing "GUNNM".
I don't know how it will be.
Will it be a mere cheap space opera that only reveals the secrets ?
Or can it be a new birth of GUNNM ?
I have things I want to write while I'm alive.
So, I try.
If you like, please cheer me.

August 27, 2000 / Yukito Kishiro



English translation Special thanks / Tetsuki Matayoshi
Last edited by bhaal on Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by bhaal » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:58 am

Whats on Kishiro mind when doing GUNNM?

Battle Angel ALITA (GUNNM)

Known as "Gunnm" in Japan, this comic was my debut series. It was published serially from winter 1990 until spring 1995, in Shueisha's "Business Jump" magazine.
After many years of trial and error, I finally succeeded in creating a story that combined an introspective cyborg theme with the concept of surviving in an apocalyptic world.
Battle Angel Alita has been a very big success for me. Besides Japanese, it has been published in English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Chinese (Cantonese and Taiwanese), Korean, and Thai.
Compared to my other works, Battle Angel Alita is very unique.
There are 2 completely different underlying themes in the series. The "darkness mode" refers to the to dark side of life, and the "glory mode" refers to the goodness of human nature. To succeed in showing this contrast, I created characters who strove for humanity in a dark world.
Someday, I would like work on Battle Angel Alita again... maybe an extra story or something like that.

Yukito Kishiro


And Sergio, sorry for hijack you thread with this.
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Post by MrFaber » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:17 am

Yet that interview is now 8 years old, we should see which are Kishiro's plans and conclusion according to how the story has evolved and still how good it sold :)

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