Tunguska remote controlled ?

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bshiny
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Tunguska remote controlled ?

Post by bshiny » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:54 pm

Hows that possible in real time ?
Phase 71 page 28 : Jovian Control in Jupiter orbit reacts immediately to what Tunguskas catched in flight and makes Tunguska severe his arm right away.
Anyway seconds too late.
But thats impossible according to Einstein.
Earth to Sun has 8 minutes time distance , to Jupiter the distance from Earth is about half an hour.
Is there any logical explanation for ignoring the time lag ?

Nevertheless I believe remote controlled robots are against ZOTT regulations.

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spacey
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Post by spacey » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:11 pm

With a quantum connection its no problem (in the gunmm universe). I don't know the English words for it, but with this technique its theoretically possible to transmit data without time lag over distances. You have to cross link two elementary particles and then separate them. As long as they stay in this special state both behave exactly the same, always. The only problem: This special cross linked state for elementary particles is very very unstable. So today its by far not possible. But there is progress :)

Alita has the same kind of connection with the main computer ;)

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HumanRage
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Re: Tunguska remote controlled ?

Post by HumanRage » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:39 pm

bshiny wrote:
Nevertheless I believe remote controlled robots are against ZOTT regulations.
yes, but if you remember correctly, Zott is a masquerade, like a child play between the two powers of the solar system, venus & jupiter.

so, them cheating doesn't surprise me at all !
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Post by ederly » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:19 am

in my understanding the jovians were using a wormhole to connect them with
tunguska with no distance

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hepar
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Post by hepar » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:26 pm

spacey wrote:With a quantum connection its no problem (in the gunmm universe).
in my understanding the jovians were using a wormhole to connect them with tunguska with no distance
The problem is that with quantum connection only it's impossible to transmit any information on purpose. Because information about non-random processes cannot be transmited faster than the speed of light. To use quantum transmitter you have to use radiowaves connection to understand the information that you recieve. But others can't read what you have recieved the only thing thay could understand is that you are in connect with someone.

Wormholes is something different - you're just shrinking the space betwen two points of the univerce, that means that time you need to transmit a signal with radoiwaves or smth that moves with the speed of light is shorter.

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spacey
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Post by spacey » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:42 pm

Then tell this Koshiro ;)

In his universe Alita has this connection. And for discussions about our universe my knowledge in physics is to bad :)

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Post by MrFaber » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:38 am

Sorry, i've no real knoledge about phisics, but i the quantum link theory, for as far as i know, the quantum superluminar communication between the particles is about their spinning movement. If one particle abruptly revers it's spinning the other istantaneously revers it's own. So, if theorically it is possible to build a device which forces a spin inversion on a particle and we assume that the same tecnology can sense the direction of a particle spinning, than it would be possible to code a superluminar communication associating a 0 and 1 meaning on the direction of the spinning of every single particle, or group of particle, to make things easier :)

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Post by spacey » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:52 pm

The big problem in quantum physics is: in most cases you are not allowed to look at if you don't want to destroy what you want to see ;) ('If you don't get knots in your brain while thinking about quantum physics you misunderstood' This was what a good friend of me explained to me)

If you 'look' in any way you destroy the special state. But as I wrote before, I'm not sure in this case. Probably I can ask a friend of mine. He has soon the PHD for physics ;)

But it doesn't matter how it works or not in the real world. For Alita the only important thing is the universe created by Koshiro...

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Post by vilma21 » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:40 pm

what ev blue eggs and cheese :roll:
its perfect so stark so merciless so plain in its beauty the absolute purity...of the true panzer kunst.

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Post by nukeu666 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:05 am

maybe they have an ansible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansible

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Post by Cailon » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:31 am

Unlike MrFaber, who says he dont know much about physics and then writes some very interesting stuff :D I myself have really no clue about all that.
But unlike other SciFi manga, you can explain most things in BAA, at least theoretically. Therefore I dont think Kishiro just thought "Anyway, it'll work in my universe", but thought well about this quantum/ wormhole- stuff.

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Post by MrFaber » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:02 pm

I agree, Kishiro often shows a wide 360° culture, he must be a quite smart and curiour person :)

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hepar
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Post by hepar » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:07 am

Not to mention that Tiphares column has to be 80 000 km high (6.5 diameters of Earth) and sronger than nanotubes, and also Tiphares itself has to be located only on eqator to exist.

He just writes interesting stuff that he founded in books or on the net. He don't actually care if it can or cannot exist.

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Post by yamasaer » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:47 pm

The big problem in quantum physics is: in most cases you are not allowed to look at if you don't want to destroy what you want to see ('If you don't get knots in your brain while thinking about quantum physics you misunderstood' This was what a good friend of me explained to me)
That's what it call an " Uncertainty Principle" in Physics

The way you can use to observe a small particle is

use a signal that have a lambda smaller or equal to it's particle radius

and if the signal you use have that sizes of lambda ( or you can say it's have a high frequency ) it'll have so much energy in that signal that can interrupt the phenomenon you want to observe ^^

sry for my bad english

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
In quantum physics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is the statement that locating a particle in a small region of space makes the momentum of the particle uncertain; and conversely, that measuring the momentum of a particle precisely makes the position uncertain.

In quantum mechanics, the position and momentum of particles do not have precise values, but have a probability distribution. There are no states in which a particle has both a definite position and a definite momentum. The narrower the probability distribution is in position, the wider it is in momentum.

so, in conclude

If you want to see a thing that has it's size of an ATOM

you got to have some thing that is smaller than the atom you want to see

^^ ok ?

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spacey
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Post by spacey » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:08 pm

yamasaer wrote:
spacey wrote:The big problem in quantum physics is: in most cases you are not allowed to look at if you don't want to destroy what you want to see ('If you don't get knots in your brain while thinking about quantum physics you misunderstood' This was what a good friend of me explained to me)
That's what it call an " Uncertainty Principle" in Physics
Sorry, but the uncertainty principle is only for beginners ;)

The stuff with linked elementary particles is more tricky. The sentence 'If you don't get knots in your brain while thinking about quantum physics you misunderstood' was meant honestly, not for fun ;)
hepar wrote:Not to mention that Tiphares column has to be 80 000 km high (6.5 diameters of Earth) and sronger than nanotubes, and also Tiphares itself has to be located only on eqator to exist.

He just writes interesting stuff that he founded in books or on the net. He don't actually care if it can or cannot exist.
Exactly what I think. Most of the scientific ideas I read in this Manga is traditional science fiction stuff from the 60s or so. The rest is a bit newer but not original by Koshiro. All people that like this manga and never read about all this can be very happy. They can explore a whole world of nice science fiction in the future :)

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Post by O.P. » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:40 pm

hepar wrote:and also Tiphares itself has to be located only on eqator to exist.
Actually, no. That's what the orbital ring is there for.

The ring is actually an intersection of two orbital ellipses, and supposedly it makes it possible to place the orbital elevator anywhere you like.

I saw some mathematical papers on how this works, but I can't remember anything of it.

It is possible that the first elevator was held in place with rocket engines, although book nine didn't show any of that.

Update: Wikipedia has some more info, of course.

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Post by hepar » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:40 pm

You can build Elevator wherever you like, but it would bend to equator because of rotation. Earth ring won't help it to be perpendicular - that's what I tryed to say.

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Post by O.P. » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:23 pm

hepar wrote:You can build Elevator wherever you like, but it would bend to equator because of rotation. Earth ring won't help it to be perpendicular - that's what I tryed to say.
Yes, it will, according to the concept. Here's the site with the papers. Go have a read if you like.

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Post by tcd » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:33 pm

In an universe where building a dyson-like sphere around jupiter is actually underway, why would the building of an orbital ring/elevators system present such a problem? :P

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hepar
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Post by hepar » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:00 am

O.P. wrote:
hepar wrote:You can build Elevator wherever you like, but it would bend to equator because of rotation. Earth ring won't help it to be perpendicular - that's what I tryed to say.
Yes, it will, according to the concept. Here's the site with the papers. Go have a read if you like.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2vskrnl.jpg
I actually thinking of building this in my hometown somday :lol:

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Batousai
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Post by Batousai » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:11 pm

about that thingy with the orbital ring being centered above the equator:

since the whole earth was fucked up bad once by an asteroid (or whatever, don't remember exactly), it's entirely possible - at least in theory, and that's what we're discussing anyway - that the force from the impact altered the rotational axis of Tellus. afterwards the gravity of the moon stabilizes earth in it's new rotation.

this idea is based off a theory that the impact would alter the conditions of the core of the earth (otherwise it would be impossible to alter magnetic and gravitational effects on earth, which are responsible for making the earth rotate along it's current axis).


This is just a totally crazy theory that I came up with in the spur of the moment and I haven't consulted anyone on this yet... I will probably have a little chat with a friend of mine the day after tomorrow (he teaches physics at the university...)
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Post by O.P. » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:34 pm

If I understand the papers correctly, the ring imposes a different orbital path on the construction, giving the elevators a longitudinal push and negating some of the centrifugal forces of the elevators and orbital platforms.

(I hope that made sense.)

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HumanRage
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Post by HumanRage » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:21 pm

if i remember correctly, everything is explained in vol 1 or 2 of GLO ...
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Post by O.P. » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:38 pm

HumanRage wrote:if i remember correctly, everything is explained in vol 1 or 2 of GLO ...
GLO 3. The purpose of the orbital ring is explained yes, but not how it works. Easy to understand, since it's quite complicated.

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Post by MugattuHasGotchu » Mon May 19, 2008 3:32 am

What kind of fail-safes have been devised for the ORS? Is it approached with hubris like the Titanic where they think it'll never snap or break or anything like that? So far we've seen some of the anchors connecting to Zalem come crashing down, crushing everything it landed on. What happens if say a terrorist nuked the skyhook junction, severing the space anchor holding the elevator taut? Would that thing fall down and crush thousands of kilometres of land? Imagine it wasn't empty desert but fully developed, densely packed urban sprawl? Is there an emergency way to sever the earth anchor to let it fly off into space or something? Would that even work?

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