Name Canon

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Burning Angel
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Name Canon

Post by Burning Angel » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:39 am

I´m back from my pseudo-vacations and I bought Gunnm: Last Order vol. 11 (the Spanish edition) and I noticed that the names of some characters are different that the ones in this forum:

Dr. Warez - Dr. Valles

Vaina Barietsu - Viner Varietz

Don Fua - Tun-Po

Tikhonov 727 - Chernov 727

Serdtse - Chernovi

We should discuss these names and decide what the canon is. Of course, if we had access to the American edition then this would be resolved. Afterwards, if there are changes that we should correct the manga in the forum.

btw: Sorry Sergio for not answering your messages earlier, I didn't have access to internet where I was.

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Re: Name Canon

Post by crazyankan » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:36 am

in the previous volumes, did they have many strange names also?
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ashod
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Re: Name Canon

Post by ashod » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:49 am

i have the japanese and the french editions up to volume 12.

in french editions

Don Fua = Don Fa

Vaina Barietsu = Weiner Barietz

Tikhonov 727 = Tchernov 727

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Re: Name Canon

Post by moooV » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:49 am

"Serdtse" is "Сердце", the heart.

Also, there is no noun like "Chernovi", there is a noun "Chervi" ("Черви"), which means:
1) Worms (ordinary biological worms)
2) Hearts in card games (♥ [♠,♣,♦]).

Word "Chernovi" can only be a family name in a plural form - it's not the case, don't mind it.
Definitely, only "Serdtse" is correct in this context, because it's the cat's first name, not family name.

What about "Tikhonov" - "Tchernov":
1) Not "Tchernov", but "Chernov".
2) These are both correct family names ("Тихонов", "Чернов").


PS.
Maybe, it's aready been discussed before, I don't know - I don't read translation topics to avoid spoilers.
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Sergio Nova
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Re: Name Canon

Post by Sergio Nova » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:45 pm

The way things are going, I still prefer to maintain our already adoped spelling.
Besides, changing the heart by a nothing-meaning name that remits to cards set is too much to me.

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Burning Angel
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Re: Name Canon

Post by Burning Angel » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:16 pm

Fair enough. I have a question, will you be releasing vol. 13? I ask since we already have enough chapters to make vol. 13.

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Cailon » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:26 pm

That is a matter of how fast (or if ) ^ripper will find the scans: Cover, back, the few sketches in-between.

Here is the thread: http://www.rippersanime.com/Forum/viewt ... ?f=5&t=432
But he hasn't said anything yet so I assume we still don't have the scans.

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Re: Name Canon

Post by xieveral » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:39 pm

I have the American edition and the names appear as follows:

Dr. Warez - Dr. Valles = Dr. Vares (My family name was Valles, but got changed to Vares which seems to be the common spelling in America so maybe either spelling could be canon)

Don Fua - Tun-Po = Tunpo

Tikhonov 727 - Chernov 727 = Chernov 727

Serdtse - Chernovi = Chervy

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Gallygun » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:35 pm

xieveral wrote:I have the American edition and the names appear as follows:

Dr. Warez - Dr. Valles = Dr. Vares (My family name was Valles, but got changed to Vares which seems to be the common spelling in America so maybe either spelling could be canon)

Don Fua - Tun-Po = Tunpo

Tikhonov 727 - Chernov 727 = Chernov 727

Serdtse - Chernovi = Chervy
:shock: How did you get the american verison?!

I want one! lol

:(
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MrFaber
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Re: Name Canon

Post by MrFaber » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:14 am

Japaneses should really stop writing in kanji, it's ridiculous.

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Sergio Nova
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Re: Name Canon

Post by Sergio Nova » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:13 pm

MrFaber wrote:Japaneses should really stop writing in kanji, it's ridiculous.
I entirely agree. Let's start a world movement. The Latin alphabet will be the only script code around the globe.
Besides, every Japanese magazine is full of Romaji text, lots of mangas have titles in English, French and Italian, to say the least - Gunnm included. So, why to insist in a code that is almost impossible to be interpreted by non-initiated?

And I should also make a point: let's universalize Western Latin standard, of course!!!

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Re: Name Canon

Post by xieveral » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:01 pm

Gallygun wrote: :shock: How did you get the american verison?!

I want one! lol

:(
I live in America. Even then, its near impossible to find around my area so I have to special order them from the local comic shop.

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Gallygun
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Re: Name Canon

Post by Gallygun » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:17 pm

xieveral wrote:
Gallygun wrote: :shock: How did you get the american verison?!

I want one! lol

:(
I live in America. Even then, its near impossible to find around my area so I have to special order them from the local comic shop.
But it hasn't been released yet. That's what confused me, because I live in colorado, and it says that the release date is Oct. 14th.

But yeah, it's terrible how you can't find Last Order (or BAA, for that fact), anywhere, not even at Barnes and Noble or Borders unless it's online!
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xieveral
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Re: Name Canon

Post by xieveral » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:04 am

Gallygun wrote:
xieveral wrote:
Gallygun wrote: :shock: How did you get the american verison?!

I want one! lol

:(
I live in America. Even then, its near impossible to find around my area so I have to special order them from the local comic shop.
But it hasn't been released yet. That's what confused me, because I live in colorado, and it says that the release date is Oct. 14th.

But yeah, it's terrible how you can't find Last Order (or BAA, for that fact), anywhere, not even at Barnes and Noble or Borders unless it's online!
You sure you're not thinking of volume 12? Volume 11 was released back in April.

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Cailon » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:18 pm

ashod wrote:i have the japanese and the french editions up to volume 12.

in french editions

Don Fua = Don Fa

Vaina Barietsu = Weiner Barietz

Tikhonov 727 = Tchernov 727
German names are:

Don Fua = Donfa

Vaina Barietsu = Viner Warjets (which actually is the name that makes the most sense!^^)

Tikhonov 727 = Tschernow 727

Serdtse - Chernovi = Tschervy

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Sergio Nova » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:48 pm

Cailon wrote: Vaina Barietsu = Viner Warjets (which actually is the name that makes the most sense!^^)
Why? :?: You made me curious.

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Cailon » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:10 pm

Just because it has a meaning^^
"Barietz" and "Varietsu" could be proper names, I give you that, but since they don't sound Russian it's doubtful. Thus, they are mere engrish.

And in Japanese, there is no difference between "R" and "V". E.g. for "love", they use the katakana "ra-bu", spoken with a silent u its "laaf", love. Therefore, ba-ri-e-tsu (with a little imagination) could be read out as var-jetsu or Warjets (silent u again) :) It's a bit strange that no one figured this out earlier, not even other publishing houses.
(Don't get me wrong though, I don't want to say that the german edition is always the best, only this time they hit the spot imo.)

edit: ok, I still don't know about the "Viner"...

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Sergio Nova
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Re: Name Canon

Post by Sergio Nova » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:59 pm

Cailon wrote: And in Japanese, there is no difference between "R" and "V".
Actually, there is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana). If it is not used colloquially, it is another story.

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Cailon » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:34 pm

You are right, I messed it up!! Sorry.
There is no difference between R and L, meaning they have no "L" but use "R" for this phoneme.

And (like in our case) there is also no difference between B and V, meaning they have no "V" but use a "B" in this case. Thats why you can read BArietsu also as VArietsu (...thus war-jets)

Oh man, that happens when a german guy wants to explain japanese to a Brazilian, while both are completely illiterate when it comes to said language :lol:

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Sergio Nova » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:53 pm

Well, anyway…

1. Once they have different letters for B and V, they should use them, at least they would avoid confusing us, Latin users, when transcribing.
2. Also, they should have adapted their writing to differentiate L and R the same way they differentiate D and T. It would also be helpful.
3. Actually, it would be much more intelligent to abandon such a salad of codes and adhere to Latin at once (plain Latin, I mean, instead of combining Romaji with kanji/hiragana/katakana. Latin is enough and universal).

And, please, do not say they are preserving their culture. Unless I am completely misinformed, Japan is not located on Pluto, but on Earth, and there is no reason to preserve the "art" of their exclusive writing code, even because only stubborn reactionary recalcitrant people would insist in a superiority of being different if they have to appeal to Romaji eventually. Latin is the official writing code of mankind, even because 40% of the vocabulary in mangas is English, to say the least. :lol:

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Cailon » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:07 pm

Leeet's talk about languages once more. Oh god I hope we don't piss off other BAA fans with this endless topic ;)

So, while I totally agree with you on the part that Latin is much more practical, I have to state two thoughts.
1. Latin is also an alphabet that doesn't fit us a 100% because it, too, is just an adaption. It only fits Latin, of course. The celts had their own system, the runes, and thus we have many sounds that can only be partially interpreted in the latin alphabet. The english "th" is one example. The celts had the rune Þ for this phoneme, called Thorn. In German we have the "sch" (it makes the same sound as the english "sh"). So we actually need 3 letters to express one phoneme. I bet you can name some of these issues in Portuguese as well.

2. I'm always amazed of how different the cultures transcribed their spoken language. They all had in mind to fix the spoken word. Often it was like a picture at first (like Egyptian or Chinese even today, Latin was like that in the beginning, too I think). But look at the Sumerians with their Cuneiform Script, or the arabs who write from right to left or even the Inca with their knotted string-"writing". Isn't this broadness amazing in a way?

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Sergio Nova
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Re: Name Canon

Post by Sergio Nova » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:25 pm

Amazing, indeed! My deceptions is that nobody has ever been able to interpret the Aztec writing code (or is it Inca?).

(meantime, I continue in campaign: Let's universilize Latin alphabet at once!!)

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Cailon » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:01 pm

I looked it up, its from the Inca and the correct term would be Quipu :shock: If your life depends on reading it out, you'll know what true despair is :mrgreen:


By the way, since we're at name canon and thus the names itself, today I heard of a french film called "Zazie" (I always thought Kishiro made that name up). But on second look it turned out to be comedy, so I don't see a connection (only that movie-Zazie seems to be a precocious rascal and manga-Zazie had a hard "childhood" [if you can even call it like that] forcing her to be precocious. But that is seeing things, isn't it?)

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Re: Name Canon

Post by Sergio Nova » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:39 am

Cailon wrote:If your life depends on reading it out, you'll know what true despair is :mrgreen:
A great advantage of being in Western World is that we are born, educated, arrested, seduced, and even executed in Latin alphabet. God bless! :!: :P

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