What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

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Gallygun
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What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Gallygun » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:53 am

So, this was only really prevalent in the first three volumes of HFV; in the first volume, Alita is named after a boy cat. Then she is put into a male cyborg body that Gonzo is shocked by, but then it is changed to a woman's body. In volume three, she asks Ed why she was put in a female body for Motorball.

Why do you think this is? The issue just disappears after these examples, but since it is brought up three times very early on, I wonder what was in Kishiro's mind.

Was it to make sure Alita's manly mechanical strength was solidified in the reader's minds?

Was this supposed to go further (like in Gestalt, where the lead female character ends up turning into a man in the last volume), but then did the publisher nix the idea out of existence before it could come to fruition?

What do you think?

Oh, and as a totally off-topic note, did you know that Alita's Damascus Blade is named after the Damascus blades that Hitler gave to his highest-up, most favored officers? They were much smaller, of course, and had silver in them but I had no idea!
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by gilsand » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:51 pm

Oh, and as a totally off-topic note, did you know that Alita's Damascus Blade is named after the Damascus blades that Hitler gave to his highest-up, most favored officers? They were much smaller, of course, and had silver in them but I had no idea!

What you say sir is correct, and a good example was on display at some museums.
If I remember correctly (yeah right), there was one displayed where the Gutenberg Printing press is, at Rhine-Main across the river from Wiesbaden.
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Sergio Nova » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:59 pm

Gallygun wrote: Why do you think this is? The issue just disappears after these examples, but since it is brought up three times very early on, I wonder what was in Kishiro's mind.
You've got a very prodigious imagination, just that. There is no sort of sexism there. Even because there is no sort of gender-bender suggestion in the entire work until Sechs decides to change her body for a male one. That said, it is clear there was no prohibition of that sort. Also, I daresay that before Sechs there was no inference of homosexuality in BAA universe. This is not unprecedented. I haven't read Marvel comics the last years, but from what I can remember, homosexuals do NOT exist in Marvel universe.
Gallygun wrote: Oh, and as a totally off-topic note, did you know that Alita's Damascus Blade is named after the Damascus blades that Hitler gave to his highest-up, most favored officers? They were much smaller, of course, and had silver in them but I had no idea!
Where can I found info about that?

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by gilsand » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:04 pm

Sergio Nova wrote:
Gallygun wrote: Why do you think this is? The issue just disappears after these examples, but since it is brought up three times very early on, I wonder what was in Kishiro's mind.
You've got a very prodigious imagination, just that. There is no sort of sexism there. Even because there is no sort of gender-bender suggestion in the entire work until Sechs decides to change her body for a male one. That said, it is clear there was no prohibition of that sort. Also, I daresay that before Sechs there was no inference of homosexuality in BAA universe. This is not unprecedented. I haven't read Marvel comics the last years, but from what I can remember, homosexuals do NOT exist in Marvel universe.
Gallygun wrote: Oh, and as a totally off-topic note, did you know that Alita's Damascus Blade is named after the Damascus blades that Hitler gave to his highest-up, most favored officers? They were much smaller, of course, and had silver in them but I had no idea!
Where can I found info about that?
Apologies as when I went there, it was over20 years ago.
but you can start here..
http://www.craiggottlieb.com/engine/ins ... n+Damascus
Good hunting.
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Burning Angel » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:38 pm

Swords and blades made of Damascus Steel are nothing new. They are have existed for hundreds of years. It has nothing to do with the nazis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

http://archaeology.about.com/od/ancient ... _steel.htm

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/98 ... -9809.html

http://www.reenactment.de/reenactment_s ... amast.html (a German site)

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Chrome » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:40 am

The 'gender bending' did very much fit into the story, didn't it? The berserker body just happened to be configured for a male since that's how Ido found it. The gender of the cat has nothing to do with the name (Gally), which is apparently gender neutral, just like Alex or Sam. The motorball body was a perfectly good question, since they were wondering why Alita wouldn't want to be more buff in order to defend herself better. Since she's technically just a brain, she could have easily opted for a more buff body.

It's not really gender bending at all now you look at it, is it?

Also, Burning Angel linked it already - Alita's blades are based on the Damascus 'myth' stemming back to the crusades.

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by kamugin » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:56 pm

Hi, people!

I feel like posting again. Good, huh?
Those last weeks I had no will to do that at all. But this time I'll avoid the bullshit, or at least keep it at a minimum.

About this topic, there are three categories:

_The person's sex, as a biological fact, people are born as a XX or XY (let's avoid the anomalies because they are irrelevant to the topic);
_The gender, meaning how a specified person appears to the world. His/hers indentity, or role, as a male or female to the society inside that person lives, independently of his/hers genotype.
_The sexuality, or what a person think about itself and what gives that person pleasure: other people of the opposite gender, people of the same gender, both or none at all?

So, reganding the categories previously explained, and remembering the last time Alita reborn from Tunguska body. I would say she has the identity of a female, or better saying, she sees herself as a human female. Her gender and her sexuality (probably) are those of an average woman. She didn't have a sex, since she is an android. She isn't even human, since she could shape her new body as anything: an octopus, an eagle, a plant, a gun. But she stated many times before: "I'm not a robot, I'm a human". This belief is what keeps her sanity and physical integrity. When Afro Nova reveals her brain was stolen from her, she falls appart literally, because that belief was shaken. Later she reborn so magnificently because she was able to recover her beliefs.

And go fuck themselves those who think I'm stating the obvious again! :evil:
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by gilsand » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:06 pm

I think René Descartes, put it best,
Cogito ergo sum (French: Je pense donc je suis; English: I think, therefore I am),
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill.
To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
Sun Tzu

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Sergio Nova » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:45 pm

kamugin wrote: So, reganding the categories previously explained, and remembering the last time Alita reborn from Tunguska body. I would say she has the identity of a female, or better saying, she sees herself as a human female. Her gender and her sexuality (probably) are those of an average woman. She didn't have a sex, since she is an android. She isn't even human, since she could shape her new body as anything: an octopus, an eagle, a plant, a gun. But she stated many times before: "I'm not a robot, I'm a human". This belief is what keeps her sanity and physical integrity. When Afro Nova reveals her brain was stolen from her, she falls appart literally, because that belief was shaken. Later she reborn so magnificently because she was able to recover her beliefs.

And go fuck themselves those who think I'm stating the obvious again! :evil:
No, you are not saying the obvious. You are just saying bullshit. :lol:
1. Alita is a cyborg, not an android. And once she is female, she would have to be a gynoid, like Olympe. That means you succeeded in being twice mistaken in the same topic.
2. She has a female human brain, even her brainchip is copied from a female human brain. Human brains, I believe you had that in primary school, are programmed to run human bodies. That said, a human brain would madden if implanted in the shape of a an octopus, an eagle, a plant. The last hypothesis is so stupid that I would like you to teach me how can a gun have a brain.
3. The fact that she has now a brainchip is secondary, as such a brainchip has her memories and personality. Keeping the same program, she is still a human being. The only point, here, would be the alias problem, but Desty Nova has already survived to that.

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by kamugin » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:47 pm

Sergio Nova wrote:No, you are not saying the obvious. You are just saying bullshit. :lol:
1. Alita is a cyborg, not an android. And once she is female, she would have to be a gynoid, like Olympe. That means you succeeded in being twice mistaken in the same topic.
Hi Sergio, good to see(read) you again :P

I tought you were more intelligent than this. I was referring to Alita's current status. She was a cyborg the whole first series, but now she is an android, a human shaped robot, like Olympe was. But Olympe was an android since the beginning of her life(activation), and Alita was born as a human being.
2. She has a female human brain, even her brainchip is copied from a female human brain. Human brains, I believe you had that in primary school, are programmed to run human bodies. That said, a human brain would madden if implanted in the shape of a an octopus, an eagle, a plant. The last hypothesis is so stupid that I would like you to teach me how can a gun have a brain.
Oh my gosh! First thing, human brains aren't "programmed", they are the product of an evolutive process and can't go without a human flesh and bone body. Cyborgs are just a fantasy yet. Second thing, did you really read the series? Many times in HFV and GLO we saw human brains running non human like bodies. Just remember many of the motorball players, the deckmen, or the human missiles of Barjack. Thus, by common sense, she could have improved her new body with features to make her more combat efficient. Like eyes behind her head, extra arms, the ability to fly, a laser gun and many others, but her psique, her self, "choose" to reshape her new body like a frail human little girl.
3. The fact that she has now a brainchip is secondary, as such a brainchip has her memories and personality. Keeping the same program, she is still a human being. The only point, here, would be the alias problem, but Desty Nova has already survived to that.
Au contraire! The fact human brains can be replaced by a biochip and a person memories can be copied to such biochips is a central point of Yukito's fantasy. To him, what is the essence of an human being? Its brain? Only its memories? Its will alone? These are the essential questions he presents to us.

Now eat your own bullshit! :lol:
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:15 am

1. Alita current status or not, you yourself repeated my explanations. Anyway, let me repeat them once again. Alita cannot be a gynoid (she would never be an android, anyway - or do you not know the difference between gynaecology and andrology?) She has conscience, instincts and personality that are specific to humans. A publisher/editor would advise you not to confuse support and media. In this specific case, the support has changed, but the media is still the same.
2. Yes, human brains are naturally programmed. Do you really ignore the meaning of the verb or are you pretending? As to the deckmen and other characters, I believe you have not read the forgotten pages. It is explained there that some parts of the brains are removed exactly to adapt them to other body forms.
3. When I said secondary, man, I was referring to your affirmation that she was an android. Repeating your last words, the only ones with some sense, the definition of human beings is in the center of the debate.

I am disappointed, as you did not explain how a human brain can be implemented in a gun. :cheesygrin:

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by kamugin » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:01 am

Sergio Nova wrote:1. Alita current status or not, you yourself repeated my explanations.
Did I? I fail to see when.
Anyway, let me repeat them once again. Alita cannot be a gynoid (she would never be an android, anyway - or do you not know the difference between gynaecology and andrology?)
Now are you talking about the medical specialties or is there a science devoted to the study of robots gender?! :shock:
She has conscience, instincts and personality that are specific to humans. A publisher/editor would advise you not to confuse support and media. In this specific case, the support has changed, but the media is still the same.
Androids like Sechs and Olympe developed human feelings and personalities thanks to the "wonders" of the "brain biochips", although they have never been humans. Sechs specially, we see hers/his development being analog as a child development. Now I repeat myself with further explanation: human brains aren't "programmed", our personalities, the things that make us unique individuals, are an amalgama (sum) of our genetic inheritance plus our life experiences. This process isn't analog to "programmation", it's far more complex than that! Sechs was born sharing many of Alita's memories, but the different experiences she/he had gave her/him another personality. Now another interesting conjecture was raised here: we could say they (Alita, Sechs, the whole AR Series) share the same "genome", they're Alita's clones, but each one of them developed different personalities. This experiment is possible today, but ethics, the law and religion forbid human cloning.
2. Yes, human brains are naturally programmed. Do you really ignore the meaning of the verb or are you pretending? As to the deckmen and other characters, I believe you have not read the forgotten pages. It is explained there that some parts of the brains are removed exactly to adapt them to other body forms.
Forget this crap of "programmed brains"! An human brain may be "programmed" to a little extent I admit (this explains the unchanged audience of shit like the Big Brother Brazil show, or the muslim suicide bombs), but doing that completely is yet the dream of an ideal dictatorship. In Yukito's work we see many characters with "programmed" brains overriding that programming and acting by it's own will. So Yukito himself deny such thing.

The deckmen may have lobotomized brains, but the same wasn't said about other characters like Makaku and the missile men of Barjack.
I am disappointed, as you did not explain how a human brain can be implemented in a gun. :cheesygrin:
And I'm disappointed to see you only read the parts you think that can be used to demolish my argumentation. :|

Now I'm tired again. Taking part in such forum compromises my appreciation of Yukito's work since I don't want is stained by dull people with their obtuse ideas, also it's a bit hard to argument in English since it isn't my native language. I don't have a good English, I must admit. I only came back here to see if there are any news about GLO resuming and I succumbed to the temptation to reply a topic.

Since there aren't any news, bye bye!
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:51 am

The problem is not your English. Actually, there are two problems here:

1. You pretend to be idiot and insist in completely senseless points.
2. I am stupid enough to argue with a stupid counterpart.

That said, my participation in this debates is over. At least once in a while, I have to respect myself.

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by kamugin » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:05 am

Sergio Nova wrote:The problem is not your English. Actually, there are two problems here:

1. You pretend to be idiot and insist in completely senseless points.
Oh, shit! Since I have nothing better to do here in my job, let's answer this...

Never, at least in this topic, I was pretending to be an idiot. But your affirmative (Kamugin is an idiot or is pretending to be an idiot) lacks demonstration, so pelase do it, a demonstration, and if you succed, I'll admit I'm an idiot. If you wrote I was an idiot, or pretending to be an idiot, because my comment about your gynaecology and andrology therms, I did a fast google research and the first descriptions I found were related to the medical disciplines, nothing about human shaped robots, so you was writing a complete senseless comment. Later I realized you may be doing a distinction between androids and gynoids, or male androids and female androids, but that meaning was even more useless and ludicrous since robots, either being shaped like a man or a woman, still have no sex, in the biological sense or regarding Alita's identity*. So please explain yourself better to this "idiot" here :|
2. I am stupid enough to argue with a stupid counterpart.
You're not stupid, Sergio. I couldn't think that about you. Obviously you're a person of reasonable knowledge at least. But you're pretentious, your writings are full of rhetoric, while your arguments are poorly elaborated from a logic (the discipline) point of view. And, worst of all, you lack a good sense of humor. So, you're boring, nothing more, nothing less. :|
That said, my participation in this debates is over. At least once in a while, I have to respect myself.
Pfff! :lol:


*Alita, as an android, have no sex, but her gender and her sexuality are those of an average woman as I explained earlier.
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Dream » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:18 pm

Gally has a sex. She's a female, because her brain has XX DNA pairing.
The early gender issues were mostly occurrences I think. The name being form a male cat was a one panel joke. I don't think there was any other meaning there except attempt at humour. (from my experience, Kishiro isn't really good at comedy. he tries, but it often fall flat)
the berserker body sex change was added to prove how powerful and exotic the body actually is. It present some of it's morphing capabilites without having to show them up in a fight. so when gally started morphing here and there, it felt natural, and expected.
During the motorball, she hated herself. having a male body was the closest to suicide she could think about.
As for the clones. I've always considered zechs, elf and zwolfs to be facets of her personalities. elf and zwolf are definitely the girl part in her. zechs inherited of her warrior spirit. a warrior don't really need breasts, or prettiness. Zechs become male because that's how "he" conceive a perfect warrior's body. Let's not that male Zechs is still some sort of puppet for a small, female, "leading" zechs doll.

the male/female issues aren't really about sexuality at all, but more about the conflict between a girl, as beautiful and life bearing creature, and a warrior,ugly and death bringing.
Gally is a Gun with emotion. (Gunnm = Gun Dream). The main theme is, imo, the antagony between the creation and destruction capabilities of humans than anything else.
Kishiro seems very uneasy with sexuality anyway, I doubt his work will go further than what we got so far.

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:39 pm

Dream wrote: Kishiro seems very uneasy with sexuality anyway, I doubt his work will go further than what we got so far.
In general terms, I agree with you. Besides, it is positive to read some intelligent text once in a while.

But I would not say Kishiro is uneasy about sex or sexuality. I believe he simply takes care not to enter clichés.

1. Shumira was about to be raped when she met Ido.
2. The cognate Jacco was a potential rapist, and that is made clear.
3. In HFV volume one there is a prostitute attacked by the strange assassin (and initially we think it was Ido, in search of Alita's arms).
4. Alita was in love with Hugo and then with Figure. Sexless persons, as far as I know, are unable to fall in love.
4. Erica was probably a victim of sexual abuse by the enemy militaries.
5. Olympe was created to be a sex-doll, and that is also made clear.

That is, Kishiro is not writing hentais or ecchis, but a feasible story, as far as it is possible in a fictional environment.

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by spacey » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:42 pm

Sorry Sergio, but kamugin is perfect right about the brain topic. With my PHD in biology I learned some stuff about how brains are made. From humans and animals. They are no computers you can format.

But apart from the science facts, Kishiro put the mind over the programming several times - as kamugin stated. And Gunnm plays in Kishiros universe.

The questions about mind, gender, and humanity are the strongest parts in my eyes and appeared several times in the older parts of Gunnm. But it is like in "Ghost in the Shell". You can see the series about a squat unit or the philosophical film about the essence of humanity. I like both but slightly prefer the philosophical part. I hope ZOTT will end some time and the story and characters will proceed. And not only proceed inn fighting skills.

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Sergio Nova » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:50 pm

spacey wrote:Sorry Sergio, but kamugin is perfect right about the brain topic. With my PHD in biology I learned some stuff about how brains are made. From humans and animals. They are no computers you can format.
For God's sake! We are facing a serious problem of text interpetation here. I am used to reading that from kamugin, but it seems his troops are increasing.

I NEVER said brains are programmable the way computers are.


quoted from Collins English Dictionary
programme or (U.S.) program, noun
1 a written or printed list of the events, performers, etc., in a public performance
2 a performance or series of performances, often presented at a scheduled time, esp. on radio or television
3 a specially arranged selection of things to be done
what's the programme for this afternoon?
4 a plan, schedule, or procedure
5 a syllabus or curriculum
6 to design or schedule (something) as a programme
unquote


Please read itens 3 and 4! :!:
That said, I was referring to a natural programme, that is, your brain is BIOLOGICALLY programmed to identify two arms in your body. If you implant two arms else, it will certaoinly have problems to operate them. With your PHD in biology, you are supposed to understand that.

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Burning Angel » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:52 pm

Ok, I am not a biologist but I have an opinion about the subject. In that aspect, I believe that Sergio is correct. I would further elaborate putting as an example our instincts. An instinctive response is a response that is apparently pre-programmed into the brain, possibly due to evolutionary mechanisms. So humans have a basic programming (at a genetic and cognative level). We respond to a some stimulai with certain predefined responses.

For example, many biologists (especially under the field of evolutionary psychology) consider certain phobias such as arachnophobia, claustrophobia, fear of snakes or mice, etc. are the result of certain evolutionary mechanisms, developed over thousands of years; ie. the presence of venomous spiders led to the evolution of a fear of spiders or made acquisition of a fear of spiders especially easy. In fact, the whole field of evolutionary psychology views human nature as just a universal set of evolved psychological adaptations to recurring problems in the ancestral environment.

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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by CharyOdd » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:20 am

grrr... so much reading.. kamugin sorry but i can't understand what's your point (maybe im just to retarded to see it :) :lol:.

About Alita's sexuality: she is definitly hetero- :geek: (BAA vol. 2; vol 7)
About her sex: she is definitly female.. (BAA vol. 4)
About gender: she is SHE.

About her being human, the whole story i think is... (to much Star Wars :shock: ) Sergio is right about your mistakes.
Argument about her body-shape manipulation is worthless to me. Look at all those women with plastic surgeries.
Anything that she looks like is her self-visual-image.
About brain programing.
I think that missunderstandings arised from use of "programming" word for to many diffrent things.
For me brain has several types of "programing" (its quite complex i think, but i WILL simplify this for needs of topic)
-basic programing (body movements, main personality traits, evolutionary mechanisms and other things that we born with)
-advenced programing (learned ablilities (i mean anything that we learn)
-DATA (memories, knowledge, crap we learn in school, work studies, life expirience)

And those 3 things are MIND who creates personality. The whole problem is that human can rewrite their programing (to some extent). But some people do not do this. I think that mr. Kioshiro is just trying to show that alita is simply still evolving by expanding her point of view.

About cyborgs with 12512 arms, legs, eyes etc.
In Appleseed manga there is cyborg who has about 8 eyes. It is only possible for him becuse he has artificial brain instaled in body that coresponds between brain and his atachments. Problem is if u have all parts in your body and u implanted yourself wings which part of body would u move to fly? It's not ass simple as inspector gadget.
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by spacey » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:10 pm

Burning Angel wrote:Ok, I am not a biologist but I have an opinion about the subject. In that aspect, I believe that Sergio is correct. I would further elaborate putting as an example our instincts. An instinctive response is a response that is apparently pre-programmed into the brain, possibly due to evolutionary mechanisms. So humans have a basic programming (at a genetic and cognative level). We respond to a some stimulai with certain predefined responses.
Exactly. Our brains react in a predictable way. But this inherent "program" is made over time of evolution and intrinsic in the morphology of the individual brain and personal development. Therefore, you cannot re-program it. That is the important point. There is no code or substance for single features. Our program is a chaotic (in the scientific meaning of chaos theory) mixture of anatomy, neuro-transmitter and hormonal system. Every change in the brain changes ALL features simultaneously. At the same time, the brain is extremely robust against changes and damages. The same stimulus on different persons can even change nothing or the whole character in a total unpredictable way. We will get better in these things. But I'm pretty sure we will never change well defined parts of this code.

But when we talk about changing persons. If you only want to shift the character towards aggressive or something like this you would use hormones. But this only works while you give the substances and does not work like a sustainable program. You can change a brain with drugs, but that is more a destruction than controlled shift.


But even if you could re-program in our universe: Kishiro states in the story (and in the gunnm universe) the superior character of the personal will. Even after Alitas memories were put into the biochip - which is programmable - her will came through.

@Sergio: When you want to talk about man-made changes on the human brain you should not use the word "program" if you mean "shedule" or "plan". By the way, these words do not make any sense in this topic for me. If you think we only use wrong words please explain what you mean.

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Sergio Nova
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:19 pm

spacey wrote: @Sergio: When you want to talk about man-made changes on the human brain you should not use the word "program" if you mean "shedule" or "plan". By the way, these words do not make any sense in this topic for me. If you think we only use wrong words please explain what you mean.
All right, spacey. Let's simplify the point. Would you please show me when I mentioned anything like man-made changes on the human brain? It would help me a lot. I would also like you to show me where I said anything like re-programming the human (or any other) brain.

Thanks in advance.

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kamugin
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by kamugin » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:19 am

So tiresome...
I think I've explained my point of vew in a fairly good way, in spite of my English isn't that good.
The categories I described before (sex, gender and sexuality) are concepts of the social studies, although there are some disagreement among the theorists. So they aren't something I came by myself. I also think I did a proper use of them regarding Alita, a fictional charater.

The human behaviour can be changed quite easily through conditioning, much more than ourselves would like to admit, but conditioning isn't analog to computer programming in any way.

Evolution isn't a determinist process. "I have eyes to see", "I have teeth to chew food". Wrong! I have eyes and by chance I can use them to see, I have teeth and by chance I can use them to chew things. That can said about every organ, human or animal. This concept was hard to me to accept at first, since initially I was conditioned to think in therms of cause and effect.

Before I've said that, thanks to Alita's body properties, she could shape it in any possible way (bird, turtle, jellyfish, a vulcan cannon, etc.). Let me add further explanation. She theorically could do that, but since her artificial brain has the pattern of a female human being, she couldn't become anything else besides that. Therefore Sergio was correct about his "third arm" objection, although his explanation was lame. In chapter 101, Alita grew wings, although the result was beautiful, it would be impossible for her to use them with a human brain, there isn't a specific structure inside the human brain to control wings. But her brain isn't an average human brain anymore, so we may theorize that her link with Melchisedek is providing the aid she needs to control her new, and wonderful, wings. :geek:

The chaos theory is pretty much applicable to the development of these kind of topics. I'm a fool trying to bring chaos back to order.

"As we live a life of ease
Every one of us has all we need
Sky of blue and sea of green
In our yellow submarine"
Nem aquilo a que me entrego já me traz contentamento.

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Burning Angel
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Burning Angel » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:23 am

The human behaviour can be changed quite easily through conditioning, much more than ourselves would like to admit, but conditioning isn't analog to computer programming in any way.
Human behavior (and even our instinctive responses) can be changed through conditioning, although I would argue that the process is easy or not.

The word "programming" is just a blanket term used to define a set of sequences or responses under some kind of pre-established order. Obviously "human programming" isn't the same as "computer programming". It's like comparing the nucleotide bases of the genome to the letters in the alphabet, or comparing the genome itself to a set of instructions.
Evolution isn't a determinist process. "I have eyes to see", "I have teeth to chew food". Wrong! I have eyes and by chance I can use them to see, I have teeth and by chance I can use them to chew things. That can said about every organ, human or animal. This concept was hard to me to accept at first, since initially I was conditioned to think in therms of cause and effect.
Evolution is the result of two process. Genetic mutations; i.e. (random) processes that produces genetic traits which can be beneficial or detremental to an organism or a population. And natural selection, a (non-random) process that determines which genetic traits should be more or less common (or disappear completely) within a population due to it's effects upon the survival or reproduction of their bearers.

I have eyes because developing eyes has been and still is more beneficial than not having eyes in our environment. There are certain species of moles that are blind because, in their environment (underground), eyesight isn't useful. I have teeth because developing teeth has been and still is more beneficial than not having teeth. Birds (animals without teeth) are descendents of lizards (animals with teeth). But inside the genome of many bird species including chickens, there are still (inactive) genes for the development of teeth.

If the traits of having eyes or teeth has prospered and has extended throughout the animal kingdom, it isn't because of chance. It is due to natural selection: organisms that had eyes or teeth had an advantage over organisms that didn't have eyes or teeth. The organisms with eyes or teeth would prosper over the organisms with out eyes or teeth, and eventually the organisms without eyes or teeth would disappear.

In short, genetic mutations are due to chance. Natural selection isn't due to chance. The fact that the genetic traits for teeth or eyes appeared in the first place is due to chance. The fact that the genetic traits for eyes or teeth prospered in the animal kingdom is not due to change. So yeah.

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Sergio Nova
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Re: What is with Alita's gender-bender thing?

Post by Sergio Nova » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:24 am

Burning Angel wrote:Birds (animals without teeth) are descendents of lizards (animals with teeth). But inside the genome of many bird species including chickens, there are still (inactive) genes for the development of teeth.
That makes me remember that mammals have tails. Humans, as well, have the genes for their tails. Could I say that because of that it is acceptable to the Tunguskan Alita have a tail and deal with it without problems?

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