Series nitpicks and inconsistencies

[AR-99]

The more recent Vares Hazard, which killed 12 million people up through ES 472 probably overshadows the Cam Ran Tragedy (which relatively speaking, killed far less: ~500,000). Thanks to popular culture and the prominent position of Aga Mbadi, people have more reminders of it. The public leaking of Methusylization could have something to do with it - it was more established by the time of the Vares Hazard, so people who were alive during that time and are still alive still remember it. Also, because the punishment that was carried out was to be burned up in the atmosphere, people could be more likely to believe that the perpetrator was dead and that any resemblance in appearance between Alita and Yoko at the time is a coincidence.

[Sergio Nova]

its as weird as if martians entered to the olympic games and no body gives a damn.

The great difference is that, as far as we are informed, there is no life form on Mars, and their delegation in the Olympic games would be something of another world (in all the possible senses), while everyone on Mars/Jupiter/Venus/Ketheres/Leviathan knows about the existence of people on Earth.

That above is just to disagree with the comparison, but as a matter of fact I do not remember of anyone informing Alita comes from the Scrapyard (as to the thunds, they come from Tiphares).

Now another weird thing is except for Caerula or tzykrow no one recognizes Alita. Whereas she is responsible of the tragedy of Camlan the biggest terrorist act ever perpetrated. you would expect such an advanced society to keep records of such an tragedy and its perpetrator. She must be in history books and all.

THAT is an interesting point. It was stupidity of mine, but I had never thought about that.

[kamugin]

Ah kamugin you must love arguing for the sake of arguing!!!
I tend to agree with what moooV one because it perfectly makes sense (it goes along my own theory which is not unpleasant given that I did not read Jung) and well Kishiro mentionned Jung himself so... It seems Paine was created along those lines (though I don't like it as I said) but well that's it. It does not mean behaviorism is wrong only that Kishiro did not use it/have knowledge of it. Or that he needed a phantom for Alita to talk to to avoid solliloquies. But that has already been said

Sigh... sometimes maybe, but not all the time. I just have other worries in my mind or simply I'm not in the mood, otherwise I could be replying moooV until now. But I'll give you my two cents. Yes, moooV created a somewhat good rationalization of Alita's case, but his deduction crumbled in the end, just because Payne, the Jungian ghost, is back is chapter 102. Yes, Kishiro makes use of Freudian and Jungian Psychology many times. If I remember well, since the very beguinning of HVF, when he talks about Makaku's past. Not only Kishiro, also many other fiction authors, make free use of Freud and Jung, just because these two are well known among the general public, their concepts and theories are vulgarized knowledge, unlike Skinner and his Behaviorism. Who wouldn't be fascinated about the Id, ego, and super-ego components of the human psychic? Or the collective unconscious theory and his archetypes? They are splendid! The only problem is that there are no proofs of these concepts and they fail to explain many mental diseases (schizophrenia for example) and human behaviours.

Leaving the Psychology aside, moooV is just too pretentious and you (plural form) fail to see that:

As a guy, who have read TONS of psychological stuff (including Jung, Freud, Lakan, Kaschenko, and lots of other interesting personages' books) I will break it up for you - just look at the magic and follow the hands:

So, he needs someone like me to bring him back from The God's realm once in a while
(also I don't understand how can e-books weight tons!)

[kamugin]

Now I'll give some insights about your doubts:

A really weird thing I noticed in Glo is how it can be normal for everyone that Alita and the Space Angels come from EARTH!!!!!!! how comes no one questions it?

Yukito commit mistakes sometimes, but I don't see this subject as one. The Space Angels' origin is just unknown to the commom people. They have appeared the first time (in the Combat TV news) in that battle game taking place inside Leviathan One. It was there when the spectators saw them for the first time. The same occurred regarding Anomaly. Nobody knows from where it came and even Mbadi could only suppose it may had its origin in Mercury.

the access to earth has been closed by a universal treaty for centuries and then a bunch of nobodies with awesome fighting skills enter the biggest tournament ever to take place in the universe and no one questions it?

In The Solar System, please! The Universe is far too more than just this!
Now the question: the Earth is under Ladder direct authority, it is just Ladder backyard, so nobody cares about the surface inhabitants. Only Ketheres and its power is matter of attention.
Touji and his pals are almost the same as the Space Angels. Mars is a nowhere land under a civil war. Touji's team was badly known outside Mars. Who would cares that much about their origin despite of their power? Touji gained publicity through his fights in Leviathan and in the ZOTT. Even then, other space karate masters took notice of him only after Zekka became his ally.

Alita even goes as far as proclaiming the tournament their war of independence!

That was indeed the very moment when their origin, the Space Angels' origin, was disclosed to the general public! Alita imposed their acknowledgment to Trindad and to The Ladder by extension.

Now another weird thing is except for Caerula or tzykrow no one recognizes Alita. Whereas she is responsible of the tragedy of Camlan the biggest terrorist act ever perpetrated. you would expect such an advanced society to keep records of such an tragedy and its perpetrator. She must be in history books and all.

Sigh! Alita changed her body many times! She didn't even have her human brain anymore! How could the Ladder keep tracking of someone they supposedly executed two centuries ago!? Vilma and Tzykrow were able to recognize Alita because of her fighting style and their personal knowledge about her.

Ibut no one cares!! I think M'bady realizes that at some point ( tzykrow told him if I remember correctly) but he just lets it slip!!!
the biggest terrorist of all times!!!!
I am really at loss on this.

Vilma told Mbadi about Alita's origin and that she gave her the Fata Morgana. I suggest you reread GLO, you just forgot many things.

[litchi master]

The more recent Vares Hazard, which killed 12 million people up through ES 472 probably overshadows the Cam Ran Tragedy (which relatively speaking, killed far less: ~500,000). Thanks to popular culture and the prominent position of Aga Mbadi, people have more reminders of it.

you are right this is a detail that I had neglected, Yoko 's terrorist action was instantaneous but she was arrested immediately, and judged. Whereas Vares caused nano machine caused nano machines to go berserk, surrounded himself with mercenaries and hid himself on pluto where he litteraly decimated the task force that had come to arrest him. His actions may have lasted for months if not years.

To Kamugin : I was just picking on you, I hope I did not vex you it was not my intention, In substance I just said it's what kishiro used, that's all. Now was mooov pretentious? maybe a bit. The thing is the way you read it, I saw it as a piece of mock boast a bit too solemn but informative at the same time. Of course it's flawed as Payne did reappear, but Up to the point mooov read it made sense. I have a different Idea as to the moment Payne will truly disappear but maybe I'll open a thread to expose my theory.

about the space angels coming from earth, Maybe no one questions it because of Unanism, people just avoid to think about it and if they do they are just shocked back into the "right way of thinking".
And yeah the body changes and the more recent vares tragedy overshadowed that.

As for "Martians" and and Universe I just used hyperbolic shortcuts to convey my meaning

Vilma told Mbadi about Alita's origin and that she gave her the Fata Morgana. I suggest you reread GLO, you just forgot many things.

Yeah I usually read <Gunnm something like 6times a year but I leant my collection to a friend a few months ago and it is beginning to tell, It's high time I took it back.

[Sergio Nova]

I leant my collection to a friend a few months ago and it is beginning to tell, It's high time I took it back.

No way! Recently a friend of mine was curious to read BAA. I simply gave him a copy of the electronic version, but my printed books remain in the shelf (except when I myself am reading, obviously).

By the way, the electronic version (distributed in this site) has unique advantages. The final text seems better to me (Viz named the Martian warrior as Gelda [would you believe that?] and identifies Olympe as an android, for God's sake!). Besides, it has all the extra stories!

[kamugin]

To Kamugin : I was just picking on you, I hope I did not vex you it was not my intention

Don't worry man. I need much more than that to lose my temper. Also I don't want to breed more "little enemies" here as far as possible.

Now was mooov pretentious? maybe a bit. The thing is the way you read it

To you that was just "a bit"!? Surely we can diverge a lot regarding some statements. This is regrettable.

I have a different Idea as to the moment Payne will truly disappear but maybe I'll open a thread to expose my theory.

Do it soon and let's have another little war over it!

about the space angels coming from earth, Maybe no one questions it because of Unanism, people just avoid to think about it and if they do they are just shocked back into the "right way of thinking".

Powerful cyborgs or androids are far too common in Yukito universe, so who cares about where they came from if they provide a good fight in the arena? Panem et circus, it's the same logic... They should say "Ave Imperator (Trindad), morituri te salutant!" before each match.

As for "Martians" and and Universe I just used hyperbolic shortcuts to convey my meaning.

I knew that. I just found them a bit too hyperbolic. Everyone who can write a decent text have his own style to do that. This subject doesn't worth any arguing more.

Yeah I usually read <Gunnm something like 6times a year but I leant my collection to a friend a few months ago and it is beginning to tell, It's high time I took it back.

Is that true? I've reread some of them just two or three times at maximum. Not because the books aren't very good, it's just not something I usually do. But reading again a good comic book (or a book) I've read years ago sure is a pleasure to me.
However I don't like lending my books, it's always dangerous!

[litchi master]

Well You are right Kamugin I should reread the series, I have forgotten a few things, one of them being when pingwu leaked methuzalisation far and wide...I got it all mixed with the vares incident.
As for why I have committed the Ultimate blasphemy , of lending my glo collection. The answer is simple Sergio, It's the French version, Many French people can't speak another language properly except for their own, which is not even always true to boot!!!
this is not bleach or Naruto, that's more than many people can do.
As for the e version, well I am a book lover and enjoy the feel of a book and it always takes me more time to read on a screen than on an actual book, though it is reaalllly convenient moreover the only thing that bothers me is the American Name cannon, I love the original names and the French version kept those, For me "Gally sera toujours Gally"(I know this pun is lame).
As for Mooov's tone well I am not as used to picking fights (or rather verbal jousts)on the forum as our trio of distinguished gentlemen is (that is Sergio Movvv and Kamugin) so I am not too prone to see things as personnal attacks. As long as I can deepen my knowledge, I am game!
So kamugin I'll be waiting for you when I open a new thread!

[kamugin]

As for the e version, well I am a book lover and enjoy the feel of a book and it always takes me more time to read on a screen than on an actual book, though it is reaalllly convenient

A computer, the internet to be more exact, is prejudicial to me. When I was in an air force base surrounded by the Amazon forest, about three years ago, I was able to read much more than in my home or in my regular workplace (I am referring to "real books", not manga). Even in that place there was internet, but it was so slooow and only three computers that were shared by twenty persons. So I was able to dedicate myself to good reading instead of wasting my time surfing =P

the only thing that bothers me is the American Name cannon, I love the original names and the French version kept those, For me "Gally sera toujours Gally"(I know this pun is lame).

To me is exactly the inverse, I've read the whole HFV in Viz version before I discovered the scanlations. When I started reading GLO scanlated by the Mangaproject (I miss them), it was painful reading "Gally" instead of "Alita" (Alita será sempre Alita). Besides "Gally" pronounce is close to the Portuguese pronounce of chicken (galinha). The Brazilian version kept the Japanese names, but although I've collected it until the end, I had never read them.

our trio of distinguished gentlemen is (that is Sergio Movvv and Kamugin)

Aka The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

so I am not too prone to see things as personnal attacks. As long as I can deepen my knowledge, I am game!
So kamugin I'll be waiting for you when I open a new thread!

Actually I don't like personal attacks too, but I like irony and satires. The problem is that the people inside these forums tends to take things too seriously and/or are conceited. When I was a kid, when playing football, my friends were able to fight over a dubious move, but I never took seriously our football matches, it was nothing more than a children play. The result is that I'm poor today because I never was more than a sorrowful football player.

"The pen is stronger than the sword". I'll be waiting you starting our next match!

[moooV]

I wanted to post about slow motion issues in GLO v.6 and bullet reflection by Vilma's swords in vol.9, but saw this video recently. Question lifted.

[kamugin]

I wanted to post about slow motion issues in GLO v.6 and bullet reflection by Vilma's swords in vol.9, but saw this video recently. Question lifted.

Truly impressive!

But if this stunt is possible or not it is irrelevant. GLO is fiction, one thing or another depicted there may be possible or would be possible to achieve someday. Good science fiction is the one able to convince intelligent and knowledgeable people. But I doubt things like supersonic electromagnetic punches or even worse, the technique that Erica used against Zazie, would ever be possible. =P

[AR-99]

During the flashback arc Caerula talked about being able to see bullet trajectories and and even the mice running around when she was in the middle of a firefight in Star City. A couple hundred years later Mbadi talks about her being able to see neural pulse flow during the ZOTT because of her abilities as a Type-V mutant.

OT: The guy cutting the pellet was not wearing eye protection. Maybe he could see better without it?

[kamugin]

The last post I answered, made me think better about my own statement: "Good science fiction is the one able to convince intelligent and knowledgeable people". When we see some live action movie or anime in which there is some spacial scene, we are tired to know that sound in space is a foolishness, but we forgive that by some "poetic license" and because a space battle is more "cool" if the sound is present. Another principle that is almost always violated is the mass conservation: characters or things become bigger or smaller very quickly without a reasonable explanation about the mass changing. I'm not thinking about Sechs here, I know he performs his "super diet punch" inflating like a baloon.

Yukito tries to keep these inconsistencies at a minimum since he is very knowledgeable regarding science. However there is another basic physics fact that is far more neglect than those ones. It is the basic Newtonian law of action and reaction: To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction. So, every time someone do a thing like throwing a punch against something, his/her fist, and the whole body by extension, would suffer a reaction of equal intensity in the opposed direction. But we never see something like that occurring! Our little and light Alita punches Touji's huge body and she remain still in the same place while Touji's huge mass is thrown meters away at speed. The correct would be Touji taking damage, but his body (weighting some tons) would be dislocated just a little bit while Alita's body should fly through the arena at high speed. This would be ridiculous to see, but it would be correct under the real physics. I know that much of the punch kinetic energy is dispersed on contact becoming heat, sound, and mechanical deformation, so the impact of the fist against its objective isn't 100% elastic, but doubtless Alita would feel a reaction in the form of kinetic energy displacing her body.

If we do a little more thinking about these subjects, certainly we would find many other absurdities, but let's overlook these "little" things for the sake of our amusement.

[xieveral]

Not sure about inconsistencies and all, but during Yugo's arc, we learned that Zalem regularly orders a whole human body worth f body parts to Vector. Brain included. This idea really went nowhere. Maybe a possible attempt to introduce Nova earlier?

I don't remember where but it is mentioned that Salem occasionally introduces DNA from the scrapyard into their own stock to diversify it. It could also be because they want parts for experimentation and have little reservations on harvesting a scrapyarder as opposed to harvesting a citizen of Salem.

[Cailon]

So Rakan can move at the speed of sound now? I thought that there are only a few advanced body models out there, especially after seeing how Sechs' old body (and most other participant's bodies) got blown up rather quick.
The Berserker: Although they've developed anti-cells it still seems to spread quite the amount of fear
Fizziroy: ...
Imaginos version 1, 2 and 2.1: Never seen before (since Nova created it)
Who made Rakan this perverker body that can also dislocate it's limps and whatnot?

And another question, why does a robot need a penis? So he sticks his robot penis, coated with flesh, erected by his robot erectile tissue into a robot pussy while caressing a robot tit, coated with flesh? I'm sorry... asking this, I feel like I'm 12 years old, but this sounds just so stupid.
Why can't a community of 100% mechanical beings develop an own, unique way of reproducing, i.e. copying and mixing the data of two persons, adding a little chaos for an own personality, tadaah. No, in GLO, where in almost every chapter a new weapon or a new martial art is explained on long footnotes, where we have complex references to famous psychologists, in GLO, robots reproduce the old fashioned way.

[Sergio Nova]

And another question, why does a robot need a penis? So he sticks his robot penis, coated with flesh, erected by his robot erectile tissue into a robot pussy while caressing a robot tit, coated with flesh? I'm sorry... asking this, I feel like I'm 12 years old, but this sounds just so stupid.

We have already debated that. Once it was made clear in HFV that Alita was able to have an ordinary relationship, we later saw her having an affair with Figure Four.

If Alita is supposed to have an ordinary life, males are supposed as well, I think. Besides, you must remembered that the guy raped Elf and Zwölf. As I have already said, a rapist is to have a penis. How it works? Do NOT ask me, please.

Also, I have to repeat that Olympe was originally created to be an object of pleasure, so…

[Cailon]

We have already debated that. Once it was made clear in HFV that Alita was able to have an ordinary relationship, we later saw her having an affair with Figure Four.

I know, and I don't want do dwell on this topic too much. But Alitas tuned-body was really "fleshy", while Rakan's... anyway. As you said:

As I have already said, a rapist is to have a penis.

Hm, hm, you have a point here (I must've overread this earlier). Ok, the topic is closed for me. (with a bad aftertase though)

[AR-99]

My theory is that unless the biological drive to reproduce as normal humans do is completely removed from the brain, cyborgs with human brains (actual or as a basis) will likely have a sex drive like the rest of us.

Zekka talks about riding around with a hot woman as what his definition of a real man is, and Buttkiss of How-Now Karate even tried to bribe him using women as part of his offer. As an earlier example, Zapan was shown having slept with Sara. Not sure how "fleshy" either of them are, although Zekka can expand parts of his anatomy as well.

[litchi master]

As I have already said, a rapist is to have a penis.

I know I'm gonna get the odd looks here (fortunately, We are not face to face)
but that's absolutely untrue, some rapists use surrogate objects to violate their victims, provided that it's phallic. because rape does not stem from sex drive only but primarily from anger and the will to dominate another person.
And the rapists primarily have their kicks in imposing their will on the other person, the sexual pleasure is just a bonus.

Let me tell you a particularly sordid little story that I heard in the news 2 years ago.

Spoiler:

In a minor correctional facility for girl delinquents, two inmates raped a fellow convict with a clothes hanger after a feud, to teach her to stand up to them, resulting in severe physical injuries and shock. So you don't need a penis, to be a monster

[AR-99]

I concur, I was going to mention that the act of rape need not involve actual penetrative sex between the perpetrator and the victim, but you said it better.

As a more recent example, reporter Lara Logan described her attackers in Tahrir Square during the Egyptian Revolution as having raped her with their hands.

[Sergio Nova]

1. I was referring to the classical definition of rape, certainly, and that does require penes.
2. The definition of rape is not limited to penis-in-vagina penetration, but all forms of rape require penes.
3. The examples you guys mentioned are tortures, for sure, but not rape.
4. No, a penis is not necessary to make a monster. I myself have met women who are far worse than serial rapists (no, I am not exaggerating; I have had enough contacts with policemen and policewomen to be informed). At the same time, I daresay that the fact of having a penis has never made me a monster.

[AR-99]

3. The examples you guys mentioned are tortures, for sure, but not rape.

No consent on the part of the victim of a sexual assault that didn't happen to involve penile penetration and this isn't a rape? Now this very strict (classical as you put it) and narrow definition is getting a funny look from me. O__o

[Sergio Nova]

No consent on the part of the victim of a sexual assault that didn't happen to involve penile penetration and this isn't a rape? Now this very strict (classical as you put it) and narrow definition is getting a funny look from me. O__o

It is violent, it is non-consensual, it is absurd, it is unacceptable, it is torture.
You should check the dictionary, simply. A knife in the stomach is a sort of penetration and is extremely violent, but it is not a rape.
I believe you understood my definition pretty well. If anyway you insist in saying that my "narrow definition" is getting a funny look…

No, it is NO WAY funny!

[HumanRage]

is "sexual assault" the the thing you are looking for ? it's less worse than a rape ?

don't want to scale thus things, even if logics tells it's better to get jerked off on your coat , than to be actually raped full course.

but still, this shouldn't be scaled, both and all inbetweens are wrong.
edit : oh, and i don't know for your countries, guys but here in France, 90% of jailed rapists were raped in their childhood and/or had violent fathers.

first, protect the kids, and rapists shall disappear through time only.

[Sergio Nova]

My intention was not to say what is worst or not. I was only trying to debate on a definition.
Anyway, as far as I am involved, this discussion is over. I do not intend to make a war because of terminology, believe me.
Thus, I will no longer comment on this topic.