GLO100

[Twitchywrote]

The only thing I can guess is that Japan is a pretty mono-national country with nearly no assimilations, and, maybe, is free from racial problems. However, that's just a guess.

Japan is a country where foreign ppl is mostly openly called "gaijin", that is a term not much different from "dirty nigger". Intresting thing is that, according to a nigerian friend of minie, white ppl in Nigeria are often called with a word that can be translated "dirty white man".

Seems like only western ppl care about politically correct.

That's actually not really true. "Gaijin" is closer to "Black dude" or "Mexican". It can be interpreted in a negative way, but it's simply a descriptor, not an inherently derogatory term. If anything, Japanese people view foreigners as better and "cooler" because they're different (except maybe some of the old ones that remember WWII). You're right to say that they aren't politically correct when it comes to racial issues, but I personally find it refreshingly honest. They definitely don't have racial conflict on anywhere near the same scale that we do in the US.

Actually, they don't have the issues because they frankly refuse to acknowledge them. Having spent some time there, it's more than a little disconcerting to see toothpaste commercials featuring huge caricatures of black men with floppy, rubbery red lips and sooty teeth.

I'm more disconcerted by moooV's comment above, which seriously has me reeling in my chair.

[Sergio Nova]

I cannot see why a word like 発狂 is offensive. Besides, according to the character who is using a term, even offensive terms end up making sense.

Why can't I call a black guy a nigger and a homosexual the faggot?

Ridiculous question! The word nigger is offensive since it was created. The formal word is Negro, that modern political correctness also included as offensive, but that is only lack of knowledge.

I have no idea how/why Americans made faggot and offensive synonym of homosexual. I just know that homosexuals do not like it, although they accept queer without problems.

[TargaryenX]

I'm not sure when you went, but I didn't see anything like that during my stay just a few weeks ago. The little kids did have a habit of unashamedly exclaiming "mama, there's a white guy" when I walked by though.

[Cailon]

I have heard of the things Twitchywrote mentioned, too. Though western-style people are cool (in the end, even WWII couldn't hold back the approach towards western lifestyle), the relationship with its asian neighbours is still difficult. E.g. korean immigrants don't have huge chances of being CEO some day. (however this is what I've heard. I could be wrong) Add this to Japans policy of still not recognizing its war crimes in WWII and you'll get a darker portrait of the country.

Personally I like political correctness. What some of you may dislike is the idiots who overuse it: like calling a black german citizen an "afro german with african background". They divulge the whole idea behind it to ridiculousness. But what's wrong with NOT calling women: bitches, black people: niggers, Chinese: chinks, arabs: terrorists, half of america: injuns, and so on?



"This is madness! This is schizophrenia!"
"THIS! IS! GU--" ah scratch that
Those editors are really stupid. So this is why HFV vol. 01 is re-released. Because of 2 damned words, what a crap.
On the other hand I hope Kishiro doesn't make too big a fuzz over it. Okay its silly but anyway, fuck them. No need for a mental breakdown here, please.

[Sergio Nova]

No need for a mental breakdown, certainly.
I do not know how the copyrights work in Japan, but if I understood the system well, the author is always the proprietor. Thus, he could change the publisher (I think) with his portfolio.

[ulysses]

It depends on what is specified in his contract. Maybe he is legally bound to some obligations while he has an ongoing series published by Shueisha.
So refusing the changes on Gunm might put him in a bad situation for GLO.
As for the reason why Shueisha demands those changes, they probably fear they could be sued as an editor of Gunm (provided that talking about schizophrenia is indeed a crime in Japan, which I don't know)

---------
On a different topic, the guy who provided the raw of chapter 99 last month suddenly disappeared few days ago: his account was deleted and all his posts were removed.
Apparently the "coalition" of editors is increasing its pressure on the scantrad community and moving a step further: the guy I was talking about might want to lie low for the time being. I don't think he will scan GLO anymore...

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... on-youtube
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... scan-sites

[Sergio Nova]

As for the reason why Shueisha demands those changes, they probably fear they could be sued as an editor of Gunm

Twenty years later?

[ulysses]

Twenty years later?

Well, it's all about this thing about schizophrenia and the japanes law. If the use of this word is indeed restricted by the law, and if the law is recent, or if there has been a recent judicial decision on a similar issue (for instance another author who has been sued for using this word) then it means other novels or mangas could be targeted as well. (That's a lot of "if")

I don't have any problem imagining this could happen:
For example, in Belgium, there is a graphic novel named "Tintin" which features the adventures of a journalist travelling all over the world. One of the first volume was "Tintin in the Congo" (1930) and was full of racist and colonialist cliches. When the volume was reedited 16 years later (1946), the author had to make several changes to hide what was then perceived as politically incorrect.
A good example of this is the following picture, in which Tintin is acting like the teacher in a rural school full of Congolese kids:

In the 1930 version, you can see Tintin teaching "history", and he says to the congolese kids: "My dear friends, today I am going to tell you about your homeland: BELGIUM" (!!!)
In the revised 1946 version, Tintin is teaching mathematics, and asks them to solve the addition "2+2". Later, in 1970, for the publication in Denmark, the editors complained about a scene picturing violence against animals and asked the author to redraw it, which he did.

That's just an example of what the author had to do to follow the evolution of public opinion on the matter. It's also interesting to note that there has been a number of complaints over the recent years (2007), from people saying that this comics is in insult to the people of Congo. In some cases, it had the effect of libraries restricting access to the book by removing it from the children's section to place it in adult section.

So it all comes down to how big of a problem schizophrenia is in Japanese society right now, and if it has gone as far as having consequences on a judicial plan for the authors mentionning it in their work.

[Aksi]

No need for a mental breakdown, certainly.

You may say it twice

By the way, I thought that Yukito was seriously ill and that is why he was forced to finish his manga. Now it looks like he just had a severe depression (or something) and dropped drawing Alita himself. Where is the truth?

[Twitchywrote]

I have heard of the things Twitchywrote mentioned, too. Though western-style people are cool (in the end, even WWII couldn't hold back the approach towards western lifestyle), the relationship with its asian neighbours is still difficult. E.g. korean immigrants don't have huge chances of being CEO some day. (however this is what I've heard. I could be wrong) Add this to Japans policy of still not recognizing its war crimes in WWII and you'll get a darker portrait of the country.

Personally I like political correctness. What some of you may dislike is the idiots who overuse it: like calling a black german citizen an "afro german with african background". They divulge the whole idea behind it to ridiculousness. But what's wrong with NOT calling women: bitches, black people: niggers, Chinese: chinks, arabs: terrorists, half of america: injuns, and so on?

I think it should be noted, especially to our xenophobe friend moooV (no, wait, I'm sorry, his immune system's just working overtime! What a crock) that there is a marked and distinct difference between "political correctness" and "having the decency not to label someone with language designed specifically to offend, denigrate and harm them as a whole." There's "PC" and then there's "not being a racist, homophobic asshole." It takes an extraordinarily intense case of myopia to convince oneself that these terms are acts of fucking self-preservation and survival.

Seriously. I'm compelled to leave this forum for good, and never look back. I mean, HOLY SHIT, I have never seen such a pathetic, moronic rationale for being a hateful human being than what I see above me. Jesus fucking Christ.

[Twitchywrote]

I cannot see why a word like 発狂 is offensive. Besides, according to the character who is using a term, even offensive terms end up making sense.

Why can't I call a black guy a nigger and a homosexual the faggot?

Ridiculous question! The word nigger is offensive since it was created. The formal word is Negro, that modern political correctness also included as offensive, but that is only lack of knowledge.

I have no idea how/why Americans made faggot and offensive synonym of homosexual. I just know that homosexuals do not like it, although they accept queer without problems.

Sir Sergio, "faggot" is also designed to be offensive, at least here in the States. I understand it means other things in other parts of the world, but that's what it's come to mean here. "Fag" itself is just a cigarette in England. "Queer" is actually a denotation of orientation, mostly to LGBT people and their ilk.

[moooV]

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[Twitchywrote]

Why are you so offended? Are you one of the minority?
I have just stated my own opinion quite radically, that's all. I haven't offended anyone directly, or point fingers/put labels.

But leaving the forum because someone has an opinion, which conflicts with yours is at least not prudent. There are so many people (I think, even in your country too), who share the same views. For example, here (in my country) using such words against minorities is taken for granted. You'll have to leave the Earth not to see such points of view again. That's just ridiculous!

I've offended you - I apologize. However, I couldn't imagine that such post could possibly offend someone that much. If you propagate the tolerance, you shold be tolerant to the opinions even like mine.

As John Locke said:

I disagree with your opinion. However, I'd give my life for you being able to express it.

So, because I profess tolerance, I should be tolerant of the fact that you've expressed a desire to use incredibly hateful labels? I DARE YOU to make sense of that. "Live and let live, man, even though I myself adamantly REFUSE TO."

Yes, there are many people who think like you do in my country. They are rightfully reviled by all but their own kind.

I admit, this is the very last place I expected to find it. And it saddens me greatly.

I appreciate the apology, though.

[kamugin]

...

[Cailon]

Your thoughts determine your view of the world. If one constantly thinks of minorities as people second class or even not-people-anymore, you'll believe it some day, thus feeling no empathy towards them anymore. Empathy however is a very human emotion. No empathy means in the best case: brainless soldiers shooting "the bad guys" on the other side. Worst case: concentration camps (of course including, but not only by the nazis).
Being normal towards minorities is not about "hiding your true ugly feelings", its about to have no urge to bad-mouth them for they simply haven't done anything bad to you. However a jerk is a jerk and can be called a jerk - him being gay, straight, black, white or from mars.

---------
The Tintin comic is a good example indeed. I remember we had this issue here as well. Some panels even depict black people as ape-like, still sitting in trees.
I more and more ask myself why YK makes such a big deal about it. Or is it just us making a big deal and it's already settled in Japan? It seems Shueisha isn't really the bad guy here, they just don't want to be sued. Where would be the gain if vol. 01 was to be blacklisted? It'd be another thing if the editor or Shueisha demands more panty shots and a bigger cup size for Alita, to get a larger audience.

-----------
And history is repeating itself once more. As if news of some arrested kids had stopped the movie-piracy in any way. The music industry, after a long struggle, showed the only way: the internet exists, you can't negate this, so why not use it? iTunes and other 99cent per track-downloads are working great. It'd be so easy to transmute this to a Shueisha project that provides scanlations or just raws for micro money. Why, no: Shueisha & Co. are going the hardliner's way.

[Klefth]

I think it should be noted, especially to our xenophobe friend moooV (no, wait, I'm sorry, his immune system's just working overtime! What a crock) that there is a marked and distinct difference between "political correctness" and "having the decency not to label someone with language designed specifically to offend, denigrate and harm them as a whole." There's "PC" and then there's "not being a racist, homophobic asshole." It takes an extraordinarily intense case of myopia to convince oneself that these terms are acts of fucking self-preservation and survival.

Seriously. I'm compelled to leave this forum for good, and never look back. I mean, HOLY SHIT, I have never seen such a pathetic, moronic rationale for being a hateful human being than what I see above me. Jesus fucking Christ.

I seriously had a good laugh with this post. Honestly, I don't see why anyone would get SO offended just by the use of a word. It's retarded to see mere words get such a huge level of importance... like when people in the US refer to "nigger" as the "N word", like it was just something terrible... I mean, come on! It's just a god damn word, and, in my honest oppinion, people that get offended by something as minor as this are, more often than not, much more racist than the one who says them, just for the mere fact of seeing it as something truly offensive. Want something offensive? How about I punch you? Now, that's an offense, but, a simple word? Come on... Words are just that. You're free to take them any way you want. They were made to be offensive in their original context, yeah, ok, but those times are long since gone, and I can asure you, 90% of the people who'd use them don't even try to mean what people meant with them back when they first appeared.

TL;DR: you're pretty much getting offended yourself over trivial stuff. Get over it and grow up a little. Jesus fucking Christ (this phrase could also be pretty damn offensive for a catholic or a christian, btw. Just sayin', lulz).

[TankTreads]

So, because I profess tolerance, I should be tolerant of the fact that you've expressed a desire to use incredibly hateful labels? I DARE YOU to make sense of that. "Live and let live, man, even though I myself adamantly REFUSE TO."

Yes, there are many people who think like you do in my country. They are rightfully reviled by all but their own kind.

I admit, this is the very last place I expected to find it. And it saddens me greatly.

I appreciate the apology, though.

Twitchy, this board has a lot of visitors from abroad. Crazyankan himself is from Sweden, I'm pretty sure. moooV is from Russia.

I know it seems difficult to fathom, but different countries have different cultural mores. In Russia and other parts of the globe, it's seen as perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs considered highly offensive in the United States.

And as for this whole schizophrenia thing, you would never see a work of fiction made in the States - among many other countries - censored because of references to mental issues, whether it's the villains or the protagonists who have them. That phenomena appears limited to Japan in particular, though there may be a couple others on that bandwagon that I don't know about.

Some things that are considered offensive in this country aren't considered nearly as offensive in other countries, and vice versa. The internet is called the world wide web for a reason. Not every site you visit will conform to the lofty standards you've set.

The web is uncensored and uncut, and contains the sum whole of each and every contributor's intellect and ego, regardless of their attitude or their upbringing or their nationality. That's what makes it the internet. If I wanted censored, family-friendly programming, I'd flick on the TV.

[Twitchywrote]

I have heard of the things Twitchywrote mentioned, too. Though western-style people are cool (in the end, even WWII couldn't hold back the approach towards western lifestyle), the relationship with its asian neighbours is still difficult. E.g. korean immigrants don't have huge chances of being CEO some day. (however this is what I've heard. I could be wrong) Add this to Japans policy of still not recognizing its war crimes in WWII and you'll get a darker portrait of the country.

Personally I like political correctness. What some of you may dislike is the idiots who overuse it: like calling a black german citizen an "afro german with african background". They divulge the whole idea behind it to ridiculousness. But what's wrong with NOT calling women: bitches, black people: niggers, Chinese: chinks, arabs: terrorists, half of america: injuns, and so on?

I think it should be noted, especially to our xenophobe friend moooV (no, wait, I'm sorry, his immune system's just working overtime! What a crock) that there is a marked and distinct difference between "political correctness" and "having the decency not to label someone with language designed specifically to offend, denigrate and harm them as a whole." There's "PC" and then there's "not being a racist, homophobic asshole." It takes an extraordinarily intense case of myopia to convince oneself that these terms are acts of fucking self-preservation and survival.

Seriously. I'm compelled to leave this forum for good, and never look back. I mean, HOLY SHIT, I have never seen such a pathetic, moronic rationale for being a hateful human being than what I see above me. Jesus fucking Christ.

I seriously had a good laugh with this post. Honestly, I don't see why anyone would get SO offended just by the use of a word. It's retarded to see mere words get such a huge level of importance... like when people in the US refer to "nigger" as the "N word", like it was just something terrible... I mean, come on! It's just a god damn word, and, in my honest oppinion, people that get offended by something as minor as this are, more often than not, much more racist than the one who says then, just for the mere fact of seeing it as something truly offensive. Want something offensive? How about I punch you? Now, that's an offense, but, a simple word? Come on... Words are just that. You're free to take them any way you want. They were made to be offensive in their original context, yeah, ok, but those times are long since gone, and I can asure you, 90% of the people who'd use them don't even try to mean what people meant with them back when they first appeared.

TL;DR: you're pretty much getting offended yourself over trivial stuff. Get over it and grow up a little. Jesus fucking Christ (this phrase could also be pretty damn offensive for a catholic or a christian, btw. Just sayin', lulz).

"Oh, dude, words mean whatever you want them to, maaaannnnn!" Shut the fuck up, you little worm. These words were designed specifically by the people who created them TO offend, and they continue to. Just because YOU'RE not offended doesn't mean that someone isn't. It isn't a matter of being 'grown-up," it's a matter of fucking decency. How exactly is "growing up a little" supposed to help anyone get over the fact that they saw incredibly racist, hateful things in the very last place they expected to see them, in the ONE place they never imagined they would, a goddamned manga translation forum?

It's funny, because a lot of the privileged dickwads I know who think they're "just words" would have quite the opposite reaction to, say, someone calling their mother a raging cunt, for example. The "just words" crowd are, most of the time, content to get really angry when those some hateful words suddenly apply to them.

Nice, btw, with the "how about I punch you?" Really got your point across.

You can't ASSURE me of shit with that utter bullshit you have posted up there. I can assure YOU that 90% of the people who use those words today use them for PRECISELY what they were intended for; slurs, derogatory terminology. Care to cite your sources otherwise? Every white man who has EVER called a black man a "nigger" has done so specifically to denigrate them as a people. All of those words mean and have always meant hateful things, and refusing to own up to what they mean and taking responsibility for them is a poor rationale for one's own hatred.
They're such easy words to live with, everyone says. I bet if the word applied to say, white people for 250 years, and every time they heard it someone threw a brick at them, or got 5 of their buddies to chase the guy down and kick the shit out of them, then FUCKING RIGHT they'd have negative connotations, you fucking cretin.

It's not trivial in the least. Those are horrible, offensive terms, and his justification that they are "ingrained" in us as survival mechanisms is beyond laughable. That was my point. Those terms are not acceptable, and I'm frankly stunned more people aren't at least a little annoyed by it, at the very least.

So, yeah, don't talk to me anymore, all right? You clearly, CLEARLY have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. At all.

[Klefth]

"Oh, dude, words mean whatever you want them to, maaaannnnn!" Shut the fuck up, you little worm. These words were designed specifically by the people who created them TO offend, and they continue to. Just because YOU'RE not offended doesn't mean that someone isn't. It isn't a matter of being 'grown-up," it's a matter of fucking decency. How exactly is "growing up a little" supposed to help anyone get over the fact that they saw incredibly racist, hateful things in the very last place they expected to see them, in the ONE place they never imagined they would, a goddamned manga translation forum?

All I can say is: welcome to the internet!

You just made my point clearer with this last post. Seriously, some people need to grow up a little. As I said, you're getting offended over trivial stuff. Learning to take it as just that: trivial words, will just make things easier on you, so seriously, for YOUR good, grow up a little. It'll save you some RAGE.

I don't feel like any of those "privileged dickwads" in any way. My country itself is considered to be nothing but a country of drug dealers. Every other ignorant american will ask every now and then about crack and whatnot. Should I care? No. If anything I just make fun of such comments because of the utter stupidity of them. They're just demonstrating their ignorance, and I, for one, couldn't give a fuck over it. Also, about that example you gave about someone calling my mother a raging cunt... for me, getting offended by something like that is just ridiculous, childish, and pretty much retarded. I for one could not give a fuck about something like that, simply because I know my mother is nothing like that, and the one who's saying that just does so because they don't know about any other way to try and offend me, making them seem, simply put, like a retard.

Like I said, grow up, learn to take things, learn about different points of view, and learn to not get offended by trivial stuff. It'll make life much easier on you...

Anyway, stop derailing this thread already. Jesus fucking Christ.

[Twitchywrote]

Go fuck yourself. Really hard, with the business end of a hungry wolverine. Goddamn, you are the dumbest person I have ever spoken to on the Internet. And I can see you've contributed a lot here so far, with your...3 posts in a year! Dip, son!

I didn't prove your point. At all. But then, I can tell by your responses that you're either not reading them, don't care, or are mentally evolved to...I dunno, a nematode?

Hope being a racist asshole works out real well for you, should you ever leave Colombia. You'll be a big hit in the South.

[Klefth]

Hope being a racist asshole works out real well for you, should you ever leave Colombia. You'll be a big hit in the South.

Who's being a xenophobe now? lulz.

You're as dense as a rock, dude... Also, I'm not a racist in any way. I think I've just proven that already by saying I couldn't possibly give a fuck about things of that sort, haven't I? I'll just stop since it seems that you simply don't want to get it. Like we say out here: there's is no one as blind as the ones who don't want to see.

[Twitchywrote]

Hope being a racist asshole works out real well for you, should you ever leave Colombia. You'll be a big hit in the South.

Who's being a racist xenophobe now? lulz.

Uh, not me...? What I said had nothing to do with race.

[ulysses]

"Houserules, Ripper, 2006 Feb 08:
1) Do not flame, insult, discriminate or be rude to people for any reason."

Calling black people "nigger" of homosexual "faggots" fits the description of what this number one rule forbids. Moreover, in my country, it is clearly a crime and can be condemned by law as "insult and incitement to racial hatred". So I strongly disapprove of using those terms, or trying to justify their use as Klefth is doing.

Honestly, I don't see why anyone would get SO offended just by the use of a word. Want something offensive? How about I punch you? Now, that's an offense, but, a simple word? Come on... Words are just that. You're free to take them any way you want.

Punch someone and that person will recover in a matter of days. Humiliation doesn't work this way, and some people might suffer from it until the end of their life: that's a reason why words DO matter. Moreover, words reflect the state of our mind and our opinion. Casually calling people names and pretending it to be meaningless leads to contempt of the others and ultimately to racial crimes.
Actually, using denigratory terms to refer to an ethnic group is the most efficient method racist have ever found to manipulate masses and gradually extend their ideas to rally other people to their cause.
So yeah, it's utterly normal to be upset at the use of these terms, and if you understand a bit what "memory" means, it's the best way to avoid repeating the darkest parts of human history.

I know it seems difficult to fathom, but different countries have different cultural mores. In Russia and other parts of the globe, it's seen as perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs considered highly offensive in the United States.

The fact that many people in the country use racial insults doesn't make it "perfectly acceptable"; Russia is sadly notorious for the fact that minorities suffer from daily discrimination and for its high rate of racial crimes. Even the government acknowledges it as a problem and tries to combat racism.
I don't know any democracy in the world which advocates discrimination.

[Klefth]

I'm not trying to justify them, all I'm trying to say is that racism is beyond stupid, and getting offended by mere words is retarded.

I am done with this crap though. ._.

[moooV]

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