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Zazie is also written as Xazi. Perhaps Kishiro was trying for a middle ground between a soft "sa" or "se" and a harder "za" or "ze" by going with "xa" or "xe".

Or, we can blame his assistant Tsutomu.

AR-99 wrote:Perhaps Kishiro was trying for a middle ground between a soft "sa" or "se" and a harder "za" or "ze" by going with "xa" or "xe".

I understood nothing at all.

Sergio Nova wrote: I understood nothing at all.

Lol! You aren't the only one. Here are the people debating again over the "sechs" of the (space) angels.

If you lost sleep over this, I don't know what to say.

What I mean is that "S" produces a softer sound in comparison to "Z" when said aloud. My understanding is that Sechs' name is romanized as ゼクス or Zekusu. Obviously they couldn't romanize it to say "Sekusu" because this sounds too close to sex and there aren't equivalent characters in Japanese to produce an X sound (they would have to call it something like "ekusu"). I am suggesting that the intent was not to have Sechs pronounced using a hard Z nor a soft S, but a middle ground, thus it is shown as being spelled as being written with an X. The same thing with Xazi.

AR-99 wrote: My understanding is that Sechs' name is romanized as ゼクス or Zekusu. Obviously they couldn't romanize it to say "Sekusu" because this sounds too close to sex

Due to german phonetics, “S” in “Sechs” must be pronouncing like “X” in “Xazie” http://lingvo.abbyyonline.com/en/de-ru/sechs#

AR-99 wrote:If you lost sleep over this, I don't know what to say.

What I mean is that "S" produces a softer sound in comparison to "Z" when said aloud. My understanding is that Sechs' name is romanized as ゼクス or Zekusu. Obviously they couldn't romanize it to say "Sekusu" because this sounds too close to sex and there aren't equivalent characters in Japanese to produce an X sound (they would have to call it something like "ekusu"). I am suggesting that the intent was not to have Sechs pronounced using a hard Z nor a soft S, but a middle ground, thus it is shown as being spelled as being written with an X. The same thing with Xazi.

You are the ones losting your sleep over this. It's well known, inside our group, that the two Japanese phonetic systems, although quite complex, are poor to represent many sounds found in foreign languages. So they write, as an example, "Dragon Ball" as ドラゴンボール that is something like <doragon booru>. So, because of this, we will pronounce the name of that famous series as <doragon booru> or <dragon ball> as in English? We will pronounce it as in English, obviously! Then, if the name of the character is "Sechs", the Germanic for "6", and it sounds like <zecs> (a Portuguese approximated pronounce of the word, since I speak Brazilian Portuguese), we must write it as "Sechs" and pronounce it as <zecs>. Here is the link of a webpage with the Germanic pronounce of the numerals (audio enabled). Manga has no sound nor there is an anime version of GLO (unfortunately) and we can't ask Yukito himself what was in his mind when he named the character. Therefore it is "Sechs" and <zecs>, the end!

Truth be told, the Bar Kansas barkeep's name (or lack thereof) has weighed on my mind for a much longer time (already discussed elsewhere: http://www.rippersanime.com/Forum/viewt ... ?f=5&t=611).

Why bringing katakana into this? People in GLO don't use the japanese writing systems, they use latin letters and communicate in english, probably mixed with other languages. So in the universe of GLO, the character with a 6 on his forehead isn't "ゼクス or Zekusu", but "Xechs", as seen on the monitor. Dialog in the bubbles does not count as an argument - as no one would ever consider that Joan of Arc was german just beause he watches a dubbed movie.
Thus, there is no need for discussions about pronunciations. The german numbers from zero to twelve aren't that difficult. A six is a sechs, not much about it.

Don't you think we can safely assume that the man who writes and knows about hundrets of ancient combat arts, who is proficient in weaponry, who knows a lot about philosophy and who deals with a storyline that includes german terms for 20 years now - that this man is able to write the word "sechs" without error? If he had wanted to. If Kishiro decided to write "Sechs" starting with an X, then it is highly probable that it is deliberate. The wordplay with XX is a nice find btw!


However, I don't want to start a war over this. Even my german edition has "Sechs" as his name and it would be a shock for the coherence of our releases to suddenly change the name... So it is all just a nerdy discussion.^^
On another note, just out of curiosity, could you point me to the page where we read "Xazi"?

Cailon wrote: On another note, just out of curiosity, could you point me to the page where we read "Xazi"?

GLO14, page 189 (only part of the initial X is visible).
GLO15, page 007 (check the raws; or the not-so-complete translation here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=37SOED9X).

Boring! Boooring!

Putting Sechs aside, I've remembered that is mentioned in a volume (I don't remember what) there is another structure like Tiphares and Ketheres (Zalem and Jeru ) placed on the other side of the globe to counterbalance the orbital ring. Maybe it was in volume 9 of HFV that many people here casted off. Even so here are the questions: are there an orbital ring and another Tiphares and Ketheres on the other side of the globe in GLO? Did Yukito forget about them? I know that an orbital elevator doesn't need an orbital ring to work, but if there is such ring, it needs to be counterbalanced by an equal mass diametrically opposed in the structure.

Another good one: when Nova, Alita, Sechs, Elf and Zwölf arrive at Ketheres and are welcomed by Trindad, they are defeated and he takes Nova to assimilate his brainchip. Trindad even is shown preparing himself before the procedure! Later, what we see? Not only Trindad apparently give up on Nova's brainchip but also we see an iproved Nova, the "afro" Nova, with two brainchips, body hacking capabilities equal to Trindad's and set free to do whatever he wants, with Trindad consent! What the hell happened!? Why Trindad changed his mind? Was Nova's brainchip too "crazy" to be assimilated? Then why he sets Nova free?

kamugin wrote:Boring! Boooring!

I've remembered that is mentioned in a volume (I don't remember what) there is another structure like Tiphares and Ketheres (Zalem and Jeru ) placed on the other side of the globe to counterbalance the orbital ring. Maybe it was in volume 9 of HFV that many people here casted off.

It is GLO, volume 3, page 80

kamugin wrote:Another good one: when Nova, Alita, Sechs, Elf and Zwölf arrive at Ketheres and are welcomed by Trindad, they are defeated and he takes Nova to assimilate his brainchip. Trindad even is shown preparing himself before the procedure! Later, what we see? Not only Trindad apparently give up on Nova's brainchip but also we see an iproved Nova, the "afro" Nova, with two brainchips, body hacking capabilities equal to Trindad's and set free to do whatever he wants, with Trindad consent! What the hell happened!? Why Trindad changed his mind? Was Nova's brainchip too "crazy" to be assimilated? Then why he sets Nova free?

This part was already exhaustively discussed in this forum. You'll find it here somewhere.

Sergio Nova wrote:

kamugin wrote: I've remembered that is mentioned in a volume (I don't remember what) there is another structure like Tiphares and Ketheres (Zalem and Jeru ) placed on the other side of the globe to counterbalance the orbital ring.

It is GLO, volume 3, page 80

Thank you for point where we can find it. But besides of that, don't you have anything to say about the subject? No conjectures at all?
If there are another two cities like Tiphares and Ketheres, what is the people there doing? Do they have no role in all that is happening on the other side of the world?? Or is that structure just dead weight to counterbalance the two cities and the orbital elevator? Yukito must clarify that before he ends the series or it will be a major flaw of him.

This part was already exhaustively discussed in this forum. You'll find it here somewhere.

Yes. I think it was in the topic about Trindad's brainchips. But if I remember well, we've failed to reach a consensus then -- however when the people here reach a consensus about anything? So I'm reopening the question.

They are called Zig (in space) and Gurat (on the ground) [renamed by VIZ to Binhar and Nezher]. I'm not sure but I think it's said somewhere that they're uninhabited stations, with Gurat automatically gathering water and air. About Zig, maybe really just for counterbalance? Or a Melchizedek back-up or a huge computer for keeping the orbital ring in place?

Not really a nit-pick, but: I always felt a little bad for Zapan. There comes this new tiny girl, acting all cocky and wanting to hunt the biggest known badass in the city - who would have not given her the cold shoulder? Cocky Alita then hurts his pride and wins (partly because of the berserker). When Zapan want's to get revenge (---> Yugo) she tricks him again. And wen he finally found happiness, one glimpse at Alitas face made him go mad and he accidentally kills Sarah. Poor guy, in a way... he wasn't really evil but one thing led to another.

Cailon wrote:They are called Zig (in space) and Gurat (on the ground) [renamed by VIZ to Binhar and Nezher]. I'm not sure but I think it's said somewhere that they're uninhabited stations, with Gurat automatically gathering water and air. About Zig, maybe really just for counterbalance? Or a Melchizedek back-up or a huge computer for keeping the orbital ring in place?

Finally there is someone besides me that is interested in this "neglectful" subject! Thank you!
I need to take GLO vol. 3 and read it again, there are many things regarding the status quo of the political structure of Earth and its ex colonies that I forgot. Opening the first pages I realize how much Yukito's drawing changed little by little with the years. Mbadi changed a lot since then and Elf and Zwölf were more cutie characters

Not really a nit-pick, but: I always felt a little bad for Zapan. There comes this new tiny girl, acting all cocky and wanting to hunt the biggest known badass in the city - who would have not given her the cold shoulder? Cocky Alita then hurts his pride and wins (partly because of the berserker). When Zapan want's to get revenge (---> Yugo) she tricks him again. And wen he finally found happiness, one glimpse at Alitas face made him go mad and he accidentally kills Sarah. Poor guy, in a way... he wasn't really evil but one thing led to another.

Zapan was a pitiful character. If he didn't crossed his path with Alita, he could have lived "normally" as a hunter warrior until perhaps a stronger foe had put him down. Alita is indeed an agent of chaos, by the dramatical way she changed the lives of many people she encountered while making her own path in life. Makaku, Zapan, Jashugan, Den, Vilma... they all were profund and complex characters with theirs own dramas, not some random foes Alita defeated. She learned much from them and they all helped to compose the Alita we have today... However there is one big exception, Colonel Payne. Alita meet him just once, they exchanged just a few words and she killed him presto! So it's absurd he haunt her thoughts now and then making hers convictions wave. To me really is a bother when Yukito brings back such weakly composed character.

kamugin wrote:However there is one big exception, Colonel Payne. Alita meet him just once, they exchanged just a few words and she killed him presto! So it's absurd he haunt her thoughts now and then making hers convictions wave. To me really is a bother when Yukito brings back such weakly composed character.

I believe you didn't understand the character. Colonel Payne is the incarnation of evil. He is a child-exterminator who uses the infants as targets in the battle field. That is NOT far from reality in Asia and Africa. He is not characterized as a sort of Nazi authority as a coincidence. Kishiro created an obscene character whose simple presence is able to corrupt the innocence of a fairy. I would certainly be traumatized if I ever met something like him (and believe me, I have met many sons of bitches - and many bitches themselves).

Last but not the least, his ghost personifies the Jungian shadow, as it is explicitly mentioned (see GLO08, page 14).

Thank you for disagreeing with me once more, Sergio. I would be surprised if you didn't...

Sergio Nova wrote: I believe you didn't understand the character. Colonel Payne is the incarnation of evil. He is a child-exterminator who uses the infants as targets in the battle field.

"Incarnation of evil" is far too much praise than he deserves! Have you forgot when Alita invaded Nova's Granite Inn and she found a room full of people Nova used in his experiments? Chaos even says to her the number of his father's victims, innocent people and farmers, were ten times more than that! If Payne is the incarnation of evil then Nova is the Devil himself! Not to mention Trindad who is a frightening and mysterious character. What atrocities he wouldn't be able to do to reach his goals? Even Alita herself is a genocide! She killed millions back when she was Yoko, the Martian terrorist. She should be haunted by her past, not by that amateur Payne. Even Zazie who was raised in one of Payne's orphanages forgot his (Jungian) shadow.

I would certainly be traumatized if I ever met something like him (and believe me, I have met many sons of bitches - and many bitches themselves).

Wow! Have you met someone of the caliber of Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot ever? The worst you can find there in Sampa are some neo-nazi skinheads, drug dealers bosses and death squadrons members. Nothing ununsual so.

kamugin wrote: Wow! Have you met someone of the caliber of Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot ever? The worst you can find there in Sampa are some neo-nazi skinheads, drug dealers bosses and death squadrons members. Nothing ununsual so.

I tried to persuade myself that you were only cynic. I finally give up. You are really retarded, besides being rude.

The greatest trouble, decidedly, is that you are unable to read. I have never met such a scoundrel. I said I would be traumatized if I met something like him, although I have met lots of sons of bitches and even their potential mothers. Is that clear now or will I have to draw?

And here he is down to the personal insults again... I'll lower my dingnity to answer, but I won't touch the mud.

Sergio Nova wrote: I tried to persuade myself that you were only cynic. I finally give up. You are really retarded, besides being rude.

I was mocking you indeed. That was because you pretentiously said you have met many "sons of bitches" in person. Indeed we can find the worst scum here in Pindorama (our recent Bowling for Realengo is proof). But wich of us, everyday average people (that's my case at least), have ever met any people of that kind? Truly Payne would be heinous here in the "real world", but fortunately we have almost zero chance of finding someone like him personally. In the GLO world, he is nothing more than a small fry villain, there are dozens of secondary characters much more interesting and fearsome than him.

The greatest trouble, decidedly, is that you are unable to read. I have never met such a scoundrel. I said I would be traumatized if I met something like him, although I have met lots of sons of bitches and even their potential mothers. Is that clear now or will I have to draw?

If your drawing is good, please do...
I'm able to read even if I'm not that good in English. The real problem is your "arguments" are weak and badly elaborated. I'll quote you again:

Sergio Nova wrote:I believe you didn't understand the character. Colonel Payne is the incarnation of evil. He is a child-exterminator who uses the infants as targets in the battle field. That is NOT far from reality in Asia and Africa. He is not characterized as a sort of Nazi authority as a coincidence. Kishiro created an obscene character whose simple presence is able to corrupt the innocence of a fairy. I would certainly be traumatized if I ever met something like him (and believe me, I have met many sons of bitches - and many bitches themselves).

"He is a child-exterminator who uses the infants as targets in the battle field" -- In GLO children have no rights and aren't recognized as persons (remember Touji's drama?). So Payne was doing nothing specially terrible in his world. His way of breeding strong soldiers was cruel, but not illegal. Personally I think the depiction of slaughtered children was bad taste of Yukito, but it was somewhat necessary to show how cruel the "space" world was, much more like a distopia than an utopia.

"He is not characterized as a sort of Nazi authority as a coincidence." -- Characters depicted as "Nazis" or more exactly they wear some sort of outfit that remembers a German SS uniform of WWII. So they, of course, can be reconized as bad guys right away! Man, this is one of the most worn out cliches of cinema, TV, comics and etc. if you failed to remember. Thus Payne's "Nazi" look just support my affirmation that he is a poorly developed character.

"Kishiro created an obscene character whose simple presence is able to corrupt the innocence of a fairy."-- He looks bad, he kills children, so he is a very bad guy! I agree... However Nova isn't far more twisted, deleterious, cruel and insidious than him?

"I would certainly be traumatized if I ever met something like him (and believe me, I have met many sons of bitches - and many bitches themselves)" This was your last and senseless comment. I don't know the kind of people you've ever met, but if you are an average Brazilian, like me, probably you'll never meet face to face that kind of really bad people, even if Brazil isn't that good place to live. Although facing a burglar, a rapist, an assassin or just a real asshole is more than enough to traumatize most of persons.

Sergio Nova wrote:You are really retarded, besides being rude.

You write bullshit about my comments and when I reply you say that I'm a tard, I'm unable to read, I'm rude, etc. So, don't reply my comments please, unless if I'm replying something you wrote. That most likely will not occur again.

By the way:

Sergio Nova wrote:I have met lots of sons of bitches and even their potential mothers.

That was quite prejudicious. Prostitutes aren't bad people just because the way they earn their living. And theirs sons a prori aren't destined to live a marginal life because of the misfortune of theirs mothers. Now I understand more the kind of people you are... probably you support the people that burns and kills beggars when they are sleeping in São Paulo sidewalks or the ones who attack homosexuals in the streets.

kamugin wrote:
That was quite prejudicious. Prostitutes aren't bad people just because the way they earn their living. And theirs sons a prori aren't destined to live a marginal life because of the misfortune of theirs mothers. Now I understand more the kind of people you are... probably you support the people that burns and kills beggars when they are sleeping in São Paulo sidewalks or the ones who attack homosexuals in the streets.

Yes, your vocabulary is really limited, so pay attention to the draw. The usage of son of a bitch here is not literal, the same way it is used in Portuguese. The same happens to the term bitch itself. It is not literal, so the expression is denotative. Besides, I don't know about you, but I have NEVER met prostitutes (the literal ones). I don't support prostitution, even because such girls are exploited, and having that sort of "entertainment" is a sort of lack of self-respect.

I used to explain things this way to eight-year-old children when I used to teach Portuguese.

Nonetheless, I will never again comment/answer anything else from you. Your lack of respect, intelligence and style has reached the limits. As I said more than once, I have to learn to respect myself.

I don't see why Ido registering as a hunter warrior is bothering so many people.
the factories have other ways to identify humans, so Kishiro must have left it at that.
Now if you really are not satisfied with that, remember that the factories are under the direct supervision of Zalem/tiphares (i'll never get used to it)so if a citizen of zalem ever presents himself to be a hunter warrior (which must be quite rare as many are returned to the genetic pool and others truly are not fit for the job) a special procedure must start to hide the truth about zalem, how complicated can it be for the brainchip send a signal to have the actual image replaced by that of a brain, or for Zalem to send an image to the factory system so that the image is replaced by something melchizedek sees fit. I smell a conspiracy here.

...

Back to my conjectures about Colonel Payne, I was saying that Alita met him just once and killed him right away and yet he haunts her thoughts. How he could be so frightening to her? Yukito disappointed me when he created such a weak character or that was I thought.

However I was commenting the subject with my wife, also a manga and anime fan, and I told her about Alita background, since she didn't read GLO. My wife is more intelligent than me, I'm afraid to say. Then she theorized this: When Alita met Payne she asked him: "So do you know me?" then he answered "Of course! Yes, yes! I remember! You are um..." and she "I don't know who the hell you are..." before blowing him up. But maybe Alita really did know who he was! She just forgot that. Alita's oldest memory was when she and Erica were close to be killed by some ruthless soldiers back in Mars. In spite of being just a little child, Alita was already a cyborg back then. But how did that happened? How she lost her human body? Alita was born in the middle of war. She could be just another victim of war and lost her body and parents like numberless others civilian victims, that was I thought since then. But maybe she was one of Payne's (or someone like him) soldier children! Just like Zazie also was.

Back to GLO #4, Alita cries over Giraud dead body, perhaps she was also crying because he was very much alike her. Then, just after Alita killed Payne, she had her first nightmare about him (GLO #4, phase 20). Back then Yukito was telling us that Payne had some role in Alita's past! And I failed to see that! Encountering Payne again brings back Alita's deepest fears and doubts. That's why he haunts her. Yukito didn't leave loose threads, I must admit. But we need to be smart to see when he knots that threads. He is a genious!

litchi master wrote:I don't see why Ido registering as a hunter warrior is bothering so many people.
the factories have other ways to identify humans, so Kishiro must have left it at that.
Now if you really are not satisfied with that, remember that the factories are under the direct supervision of Zalem/tiphares (i'll never get used to it)so if a citizen of zalem ever presents himself to be a hunter warrior (which must be quite rare as many are returned to the genetic pool and others truly are not fit for the job) a special procedure must start to hide the truth about zalem, how complicated can it be for the brainchip send a signal to have the actual image replaced by that of a brain, or for Zalem to send an image to the factory system so that the image is replaced by something melchizedek sees fit. I smell a conspiracy here.

Actually, as someone has already mentioned, it is even simpler. The deckman had to imprint the info in Alita's brain because cyborgs don't have fingerprints. Obviously, that is not Ido's case.

Cailon wrote:So it is all just a nerdy discussion.^^

Aren't those the best kind? If you can have these with your significant other, hang on to them, I say!

Going back to Zapan, his character made him who what he was and turned out to be. It is implied that he is one of the top hunter-warriors among the group that hangs out at Kansas and spoke for all of them when he said that they act alone and only go after bounties that make sense. Of course they are all scared shitless of Makaku but won't go out and say it. Alita then insults him directly and humiliates him in front of everyone, and then backs it up with her skills as a hunter. Because Zapan has a lot of pride tied into his perception as a top hunter, the public humiliation grows into resentment. He even considers his vindictiveness as his strong point. Now if he had met Sara earlier and learned from her to accept himself, imperfections and failures and not blame anyone else, he might have turned out very differently, but he didn't.

As a counterexample, 2 of the hunter-warriors in the brawl (Teito and Blu) later help Alita out against the Sonic Finger in the "Sonic Finger" side story.

litchi master wrote:I don't see why Ido registering as a hunter warrior is bothering so many people.
the factories have other ways to identify humans, so Kishiro must have left it at that.
Now if you really are not satisfied with that, remember that the factories are under the direct supervision of Zalem/tiphares (i'll never get used to it)so if a citizen of zalem ever presents himself to be a hunter warrior (which must be quite rare as many are returned to the genetic pool and others truly are not fit for the job) a special procedure must start to hide the truth about zalem, how complicated can it be for the brainchip send a signal to have the actual image replaced by that of a brain, or for Zalem to send an image to the factory system so that the image is replaced by something melchizedek sees fit. I smell a conspiracy here.

I think this is a good example of how these kinds of discussions can bring in alternative viewpoints to questions that hadn't been thought of before, as I hadn't thought of this myself.

kamugin wrote:[My wife is more intelligent than me, I'm afraid to say.

Are there any female posters on this board? I don't know. I thought this was a given in a relationship - but this is not the place to discuss that.

I won't discount it, but I doubt that Colonel Payne had a role in Alita's past. It's possible that she simply associates people like him to terrible memories as a war child.

Gatekpr wrote:I won't discount it, but I doubt that Colonel Payne had a role in Alita's past. It's possible that she simply associates people like him to terrible memories as a war child.

And he haunts Alita simply because he represents the Jungian "shadow". Simply that.