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Question for core fans. Who do you think Dasein is??
Perhaps a resurrected Baron Muster?, another Mercury embassador? The 4th product of the G.EN.E. Project? Zappa Terracota or Alef Argento? The Absurde??

There is no element to speculate so far. Probably it's someone we heard of. A new villain out of nowhere who's a mastermind behind everything that happened so far would be anti-climatic and it's seems a bit cheap for a great storyteller like Kishiro.

Zappa Terracotta (alias Plow Pottery) seem a bit green to be someone so relevant. It must be someone from at least 220 years before current era.

Baron Muster gained what he wanted. To close the circle of vengence. By an asian point of view, as far as i understand the matter, the story arc was a full karmik circle. Kagura turned a good man into a monster with her evil deeds, the monster came back as a vengefull spirit and found peace punishing her evil deeds and making ammend for his own. Kagura, we can presume, found peace in her punishment. I think that's what it meant when the two skelton where found embraced. A portrait of final forgiveness.

The 4th genius? Maybe. But i think it would be too recent as well.

We'll see.

In a couple of years, but we'll see.

The one thing I don't want Dasein to be is Gelda, seeing little bits of her I grown very fond of her, my guess and this is just speculation that Dasein is probably tiger sauer since the necrosoldier are mostly kunstler and he pretty is the leader of all the kunstler given he founded panzer kunst and grunthal it's a possibility.

Another possibility is that dasein is schneider one of the five students of sauer actually.

Bonus comment I think Gelda fate was that she probably got killed by Erica and that's why Yoko wants to kill Erica committing such an unforgivable act, if that was the case I wouldn't like that route so please let me be wrong.

I can only see one possibility: the priestess. (priesterin)

She was already there 200 years before so she could have made the necro soldiers. She now occupies a place of power and we may infer that she may well have resources to fund a private militia. She seems to enjoy a neutral status as her role is to ensure that the baldachin keeps protecting Mars, so no faction will risk her wrath as others would instantly turn on them. Such a position could very well serve as a stepping stone to become regent if the royal family ceased to exist, as she seems to have no personal agenda, but the well-being of Mars, thus she may be widely accepted.
We don't know her motivations but one thing is sure: she resents humans and her character is wrapped in mystery:
What are these priestesses? How does she know Nova? Why does she help Alita? Why did Kishiro choose to keep this character?

As for the last question I think it is to balance Erica's hostility, she acts as the other character from Alita's past who is not hellbent on killing her. So Alita will tend to be more trusting towards her, while in fact the priesterin may well be steering her to achieve her own goals.

litchi master wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:31 pm I can only see one possibility: the priestess. (priesterin)

She was already there 200 years before so she could have made the necro soldiers. She now occupies a place of power and we may infer that she may well have resources to fund a private militia. She seems to enjoy a neutral status as her role is to ensure that the baldachin keeps protecting Mars, so no faction will risk her wrath as others would instantly turn on them. Such a position could very well serve as a stepping stone to become regent if the royal family ceased to exist, as she seems to have no personal agenda, but the well-being of Mars, thus she may be widely accepted.
We don't know her motivations but one thing is sure: she resents humans and her character is wrapped in mystery:
What are these priestesses? How does she know Nova? Why does she help Alita? Why did Kishiro choose to keep this character?

As for the last question I think it is to balance Erica's hostility, she acts as the other character from Alita's past who is not hellbent on killing her. So Alita will tend to be more trusting towards her, while in fact the priesterin may well be steering her to achieve her own goals.

well she helped Yoko, because she is meant to be the 13th orakel (oracle), according to her surperior, also she is a gartner not a priesterin that is her superior actually. It is been 5 years and we still don't know what the heck an orakel is meant to be.

You are right, 200 years before she was a gartner but now she has become priesterin. maybe she has always had the ambition to rule Mars, or to end wars. As other nations use Mars as a battlefield to make their wars by proxy, this might be her motive to become Dasein, so that no more of her comrades have to become part of the network to repair the damage of the never ending wars.
two other things
1Yoko and Erica are kids when they first meet, so she may have accessed a higher position by the time they had become full fledged kunstlers.
2 another motive she might have, would be fighting her own destiny, she doesn't want to become part of the baldachin and disappear so she will do anything in order not to become part of it. Moreover seeing Alita being back from the dead, whereas she was supposed to have died after the Tragedy of Camlann, may have prompted her into action.
All these years she thought the oracle was wrong, and here comes Alita who seems to have overcome impossible odds to fulfill the prophecy(insert generic prophecy here "she will be the one to bring the peace back to mars) must have shown her she wasn't in control, thus she may try to eliminate her.


Two other prime suspects would be Kagura, you least expect a villain when you think they are dead. But that seems farfetched.
Another suspect would be Zoe, continuing Muster's legacy. But even though I can picture her coming back, I cannot see her as the main antagonist.

I think Veres overtook Mbadi and he is the big hidden baddy. It is a huge Universe but YK like Figure to bump into Sechs, Ido, Koyomi(twice), ... YK is
ok with lots of coincidence.

Maybe Veres drove Mbadi like a peacekeeper mind implant or something. Otherwise we don't get a lot of Mbadi going bad back story. He was a Saint then at least a hundred years ago he battled the righteous Weasel.

We've also never seen the Speaker mouth Panzer Kunst guy since the original series.

I had overlooked him, though I had thought him a good candidate for a mastermind villain operating from the shadows.
However I have a little problem with him, if m'badi was indeed corrupted by him and did his bidding, how comes he was the only one who could keep him in check and constantly thwarted him?
More over what would his link with Mars be? (this can be explained but he is originally from Zalem/tiphares)Moreover he comes too late in the chronology: one hundred years after The Tragedy of Camlann.He might have been one of his goons though. After all he had Martian mercenaries so maybe they were in league...

I really liked M'badi's backstory and I wish Kishiro had explored it more. if one character deserves a one shot it's him!

As for Yoko's panzerkunst Master, I have been waiting for him to reappear for years!!! It seems kishiro hasn't forgotten him either as he has drawn him on a calendar art depicting the most important character in the manga in 2003 so... I know it's a long time ago, but he was in the process of creating last order at the time and he might have missed him but he didn't, even though he had so little time, so I expect him to play a part later when at last the story reaches grunthal and the final stages of the panzer kunst training.

As for Yoko's panzerkunst Master, I have been waiting for him to reappear for years!!

I wonder what happened to the huge tubular thing he had in his mouth

well maybe this was the most durable device there was at the time or the cheapest? or he just fell on a can of soup in his kitchen one day and he liked the mysterious look it gave him so much that he decided to keep it after his cyborg surgery.

Carula...Vampire woman...I suck at names.....tells Nanny cyborg lady that Dasein was laying low waiting for Mbadi to go away because only he could easily find necreo soldiers. If Mbadi was a puppet, it is almost too simple.

I feel like Mbadi had been a puppet the whole time is almost too silly; of course the idea that MBadi NEEDED to transfer Vares brain has always been a really bad idea in my mind too. It has to be an existing character just because YK loves that and he is getting old.

It would be kind of cool if it was one of the Vampires we thought dead... Caerula would be pissed.

YK has some HUGE holes to fill (you know there is a Venus Quantum Computer). It just feels too implausible that it isn't someone we haven't heard of.

I always thought the mouth thing was a speaker....and he "just" gave the orphanage head mistress speaker boobs in Mars Chronicle 1. lol. I thiink Speaker Mouth is forgotten.

t would be kind of cool if it was one of the Vampires we thought dead... Caerula would be pissed.

Victor? I wouldn't like that much, but it would be an idea. The other vampires where not only dead, they where cut to pieces if i don't recall bad.

What about Zoey? She didn't die by the end of Muster's arch.

Zoey seemed inept, laughed at by Erica. I mean, to be the master of disaster, Necro Soldier creator ... it would be a stretch for Muster.

Melchizedek is an option...something related to the origin of the Brain Bio Chip. THAT feels like a story he wants to tell, cutting off that last Nova in Tiphares. Jupiter-quantum-computer's quip about ruling mankind in 50 years is about what Dasein is all about. We have 3 years in Venus we know nothing about except that Caerula was on the same space transport as Alita at some point. You KNOW that Venus has an organic-esque quantum computer...or probably a bunch...like a quantum senate.

Laying low, waiting for Mbadi to pass is really the biggest tidbit we know about Dasein, and he can exert mind control. Mbadi was the most important guy in the Solar System it seemed. I feel like Vares printing another body for himself; and Mbadi WAS a necrosoldier prototype is a pretty plausible scenario.

The Solar System is weird...space tourism in the Asteroid belt, but no tourism to Earth? He has kind of left gaping plot holes, not to mention Mercury could erupt at a moment's notice.

Too bad Nova was the only remotely interesting person on Earth...it would be a good place to hide out.

The old YK has a cool toy box. LOL..we probably got 2 more kiddie Yoko books; then 5ish Panzer Kunst High School books before we get back to Dasein...

Vares hiding on Mercury feels plausible. Mercury is the most remotest part of the Solar System that no one knows anything about. Maybe it harbors its father?

Hmm, but what do we know about queen Limira? Nobody suspects her and even Vilma, who finds her a bit of a mystery, doesn't dare to inspect her more thoroughly. At the other hand, she could have easily informed the kunstlers about the whereabout of Vilma, let her plant a bomb on her plane and take her out using the assasination attemp by the fake Alita to lure out her major advisaries (like Alita, Vilma and the Priest). Why did Mbadi kill her father? Even though she appears young, we don't know her age. We also don't know if Dasein is only one person or a group or even if a hereditary title, like queen (or priest).

D3sty wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:37 am Hmm, but what do we know about queen Limira?

What about her bear? All the tropes point to Limira being wise and beneficent. It would be poor writing to go back on that without foreshadowing. However, does she really believe the bear "is her father" or is it an affectation? If I were an evil overlord I'd have rigged the bear to whisper subtle advice in her ear and use her as a pawn.

The point is not clear at all, but i strongly thing that Koning (Limeira's bear) it's actually her presumed decesed father hiding in a cyborg body. Only ventriloquism? He really seem to speack by his own mind.

Tiger Sauer is another name. It's interesting that the center of Dasein power is his disciples.

I think it is safe to assume at this point that Limeira is a necro soldier.

I don't like Priesterin as a candidate just because we barely understand who/what she is. I guess that Mars Canopy was a nanotech construction effort that her organization managed/runs? Ok.

We'll see...in 10 years.

We'll see...in 10 years.

Unless Kishiro dies first.

Damn, i hate endless publications. Does the editor have no balls?

MrFaber wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:17 am

We'll see...in 10 years.

Unless Kishiro dies first.

Damn, i hate endless publications. Does the editor have no balls?

I hope kishiro leaves behind storyboard draft, key plot points to his editor and his brother. Also his brother could take over as he does some of the background art for yukito a lot of the time.

Also I don't think he can fulfil his promise on resuming to aqua knight after finishing battle angel ( still haven't read that manga yet)

3 years later and another nook of the Gunnm Universe that could hide Dasein since Yoko's mission AND I don't see here otherwise is...



On Leviathan V.

That one took a slingshot around the sun and was never seen again.

At the height of the war, it would have had advanced nanotech available plus those things are big .... so anything can be on there is a baseline possibility.

It was being designed for a one way trip at least 3 light years away like a Battlestar Galactica...so it was pretty well along to be blasted off but no crew and say it just wasn't ready for the big trip but could it hide beyond Jupiter's sensors? Could have been 1-1M+ workers on there.

If you were "alone" on a small planet that most of the rest of the Universe just tried to use as a bullet...you might just be happy on your "small planet" to lay low.

The people working on it were grand minds not building it for themselves, but the special pre-Tipharean interstellar genetic stock so ... anything is possible on there.

Another too obvious theory is Dasein is a duplicate of two of the other brain bio chips in Trinidad. He tells Nova he is the fourth, we know Vares was the first. Frankly all 3 could be duplicates.

Desty Nova could be the most advanced of the four, as Karmatron Dynamics was presented to Ladder as a solution to solving teleportation/duplication of people and the Imaginos body seems to be that powerful and special. I think Vare's acts on Mercury and inventing the "add an extra brain trick", are about equal ... considering Anomaly and all.

Any one of the 3 could have duplicated themselves, including Trinidad in a botched teleportation or elective brain bio chip duplication as we know Zekka chose to do.

Everyone is a suspect!!!

AND, detail catch ... of course I am doing a re-read,

Vares is the second GENE Project selection from a foornote ... and so the first or 3rd could be candidates, assuming the first one didn't go bad/rotten. Brain bio chips are inert static semiconductor chips

So Vares invented the procedure. So first and third are strong Dasein candidates.

I still think a Trinidad clone/teleportation duplicate is a strong idea and solves the .... too much new stuff late in the game....Dasein-is-a-Trinidad-replication is a freebie Emperor reborn thing, which does kind of feel preferable to some new another-more-badass-dude.

Martin wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:54 pm AND, detail catch ... of course I am doing a re-read,

Vares is the second GENE Project selection from a foornote ... and so the first or 3rd could be candidates, assuming the first one didn't go bad/rotten. Brain bio chips are inert static semiconductor chips

So Vares invented the procedure. So first and third are strong Dasein candidates.

I still think a Trinidad clone/teleportation duplicate is a strong idea and solves the .... too much new stuff late in the game....Dasein-is-a-Trinidad-replication is a freebie Emperor reborn thing, which does kind of feel preferable to some new another-more-badass-dude.

Perhaps, but Caerula Sanguis removed his brainchips. That is a dead end. I think it is someone related to Alita. A masktumor with the same abillities like hers, f.i. The most probable candidate is the Saule priesterin, Mui. She is old enough, has the technology and is revered and respected, but I won't be surprised if Ninon Silber is somehow behind it Oh and I suspect the current queen of Mars. She is off.