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Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:55 pm
by Isidorios
I seem to get onto these tangents where I'm hypothesizing about what's really going on in the book, and it turns into long-winded conjecture in disparate threads.
Thus I am creating this topic to try and keep it all in one place, so as to avoid cluttering up threads on other topics. I'm going to copy a few of my old posts as part of this, with the Moderator's indulgence. It may be that I've simply re-read Battle Angel one too many times and lost my mind, but here goes.

Re: Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:57 pm
by Isidorios
Isidorios wrote:
Vendigo wrote:I'll bet the gene sequence synthesizer from the early part of the story is going to create a human body for alita, with her human brain & all.
I'll bet against you. That Organ is used to formulate new gene sequences, whereas Alita and Lou already have a genetic code. All Nova needs to ressurect either of them is a significant portion of their brains.

Which leads me back to a question I'd almost forgotten; the mystery of Alita's original creation. I'm highly suspect of the idea that she was actually a real, organic child at any point. Not only is she a full cyborg (at the least) as a toddler, but Nova makes specific mention of the fact that her "organic" brain is in fact a marvel of nanotechnology reinforced/constructed with damage-resistant polymers (all the way back in the first book).

:idea: My personal theory is that she's Mchzdk's personal death-wish or something similar. I wouldn't put it past Arthur and the other ghosts to create her as a means to their end, their Angel, someone who's actions they couldn't predict at all. After all, she did sneak up on a Superintelligent AI who's primary function is Future Prediction. Normally that should be utterly impossible. I'd bet that Mchzdk built the same forbidden technology into her brain that Don Fua's using, and that even remotely she's able to access it from her original brain through quantum entanglement.

And it would be just like Arthur to make her a small Japanese girl with musical inclinations, wouldn't it?
We haven't seen a lot of Japanese even on Earth, let alone amongst the folks on Mars.

Just throwing that all out there.
I've since lost my conviction that M created Yoko as an act of self-destruction, but one thing is certain; either the Supercomputer designed to predict major events COULDN'T predict the Cahm Rahn Calamity, because of Yoko's X-factor....
Or it predicted all of it, and had a compelling reason not to interfere with Yoko's destiny at that point.

I cannot be convinced that Melchizedek simply failed to see all of that coming it's way.

Re: Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:58 pm
by Isidorios
Isidorios wrote:On further thought, it might explain why Yoko was chosen to be Mechelzidek's "assassin" in the first place, if whe were originally created by M or a third party to circumvent the A.I's predictive abilities.
This would explain the confusion of her immediate superiors (like Tzycrow) over her being chosen for such a catclysmically important task at her relative inexperience. The Elders of Grunthal might have been aware of her special qualities from the start.
In fact, that would put her rescue at the hands of Gelda in an entirely different light, changing it from a random act of altruism, to a specific mission to recover Alita/Yoko as a means to an end. Mars was a pretty war-torn world at that point, with a lot of people suffering, and the Kunstlers don't exactly strike me as a good-guy rescue operation. They certainly didn't do anything for Erica's family/town.

Re-read that early chapter with Gelda and toddler Alita, and tell me if it seems to you less a stroke of good luck or a random rescue of children and more as a specific operation by an elite agent out to recover someone/thing.

Maybe I should start a thread about this before I ramble on any further.
On another note, Pastrami appears to be my Flan; I think better when I eat it! KYAHAHA*cough*ACK!

Re: Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:02 pm
by Isidorios
There. I might quote some of my older ramblings later on as they become pertinent, but from here I'll continue on with newer thoughts on the material.

I eagerly welcome any input from others, even if it's just to say that I'm probably full of it. I know I'm reading rather a lot into some of this; but it's my favorite work of Science Fiction (only Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light comes close) and I've scrutinized the hell out of it and started noticing some patterns and recurring themes that might not be superficially obvious.

Re: Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:47 pm
by Isidorios
Who birthed/made Alita/Yoko?

I still come back to Melchizedek. In the original ending to Battle Angel, it takes on a female aspect "an overbearing mother" according to Nova. There's no reason to assume that it's Overall aspect has changed from that initial idea. In Last Order 10, when Lamba Nam Nam proclaims that "Melchizedek has taken form" (appearing as old Arthur), the manifestation is careful to explain that it's "just the vision of an old man" and merely a subunit. So we've never seen the actual representation of Melchizedek's self-image, just ghosts of the past/subunits.

In Last Order 9, Merlin completely activates ITSELF, and tellingly one of the techs is heard to say "It looks like Merlin is crying over Haruka's death." to which another responds "No, maybe Haruka's soul is trapped inside of it!" Given what we've been told about quantum entanglement and the nature of the soul in other volumes, it's quite possible that both of these things are more or less accurate.

So it's very possible that Melchizedek's self-image is that of Haruka, who ends up being sort of a virgin sacrifice that brings the Machine God(ess) to life. IF Haruka is Mzdk's persona, (a BIG if), then it completely makes sense that if she DID create Alita for some purpose (another big if), that she'd create her in the image of a Japanese child. Really, their aren't that many Japanese people in BAA. Most of it is set in Kansas City Missouri, whereabouts I live.

While any conjecture over WHY Melchizedek would want to put a living child into the world is purely that, I do plan to theorize more on that later. But remember that Haruka's fondest wish was to give Arthur a baby. So Mchzdk could have done it for no more reason that to fulfill Haruka's/it's own deepest wish. With this in mind, I lose faith in my earlier hypothesis that M created Yoko as a way to end itself, and instead created her to carry on as the next generation. And that someone with knowledge of her nativity used her as a weapon against M that could exploit M's blind-spot for predicting events concerning it's offspring.

One of the moments that really sticks that idea into my mind is Alita and Ghost-Caerula's conversation in volume 10, immediately after the flashback volumes. Keep in mind that she's not speaking to actual Caerula, but Melchizedek using an "Imaginary Personality".

When Alita refuses responsibility for the Fata Morgana and the Last Order, Melchizedek responds with "So this is your way of living, huh"/ "So that's how you live your life (EV)" and "If you think about it, Arthur and I remained at our own stations, holding on to our responsibilities, maybe that's why we lost"/"Perhaps Arthur and I failed because we tried to shoulder too much responsibility. (EV)"

Yes, you could read that as Caerula rather easily, but it's NOT her in fact. In fact it's Mzdk's rumination on the responsibilites it and Arthur have shouldered for humanity's fate. And it sounds an awful lot like a Parent coming to terms with a child's independence to me.

To sum this bit up, I suspect that Melchizedek/Haruka's Spirit is Alita's mother, and Ghost-in-the-Machine Arthur is more or less her father. That she's an artificial life-form created to exist in the world of the living as their legacy, who was somehow lost/stolen in the terraforming wars, and recovered by Gelda for Grunthaals own purposes. (Or maybe once again, for Mchzdk's purposes. Even Caerula herself is aware that the AI is manipulating events to suit itself, like her facing Alita in the ZOTT again after 200 years.)

Circumstantially it fits that Alita is Haruka's daughter. Especially in the early volumes of the first series, young Alita shares a LOT of personality traits with Haruka as depicted in volumes 8 and 9, not the least of which are her love of music and Spirituality. and gentle romantic heart.
Could be she's the A.I's attempt at creating an "artificial saint", someone who can escape the limits of Karma, a recurring theme in the storyline.
I'll adress that theme further in my next rumination.

Re: Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:57 pm
by Sergio Nova
Your ruminations are great, I daresay. At least, they do make sense. As to this part…
Isidorios wrote: Circumstantially it fits that Alita is Haruka's daughter. Especially in the early volumes of the first series, young Alita shares a LOT of personality traits with Haruka as depicted in volumes 8 and 9, not the least of which are her love of music and Spirituality. and gentle romantic heart.
Could be she's the A.I's attempt at creating an "artificial saint", someone who can escape the limits of Karma, a recurring theme in the storyline.
… Yoko could have even been a sort of resurrection of Haruka.

Re: Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:21 pm
by Isidorios
One of the things that struck me as odd, in early readings of the series, is the moment when Ghost Arthur is trying to call Alita's spirit back from the edge of death in Robo-asyl.
He says "Gaze upon this vision of those who have entrusted their dreams to you!", and we see ghosts of all the characters who've played a role in Alita's life since the early volumes.
The LAST and Largest ghosts are Arthur, Haruka, Rhada and two of the Merlin techs. I remember saying "wait, these are just some people that she saw in a movie an hour ago, why does she have this powerful connection to them specifically?" And yet they are looming over all the other spirits.

BUT, these people are also the ones that this incarnation of M would consider it's "parents", and if Alita/Yoko is M's offspring, then it begins to make a bit more sense, giving her a direct generational link to these old dead humans.

Re: Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:19 am
by Sergio Nova
Isidorios wrote:The LAST and Largest ghosts are Arthur, Haruka, Rhada and two of the Merlin techs.
The first time I saw that I was unable to understand, as it seemed odd such characters to be mourning the heroine. And then I forgot that completely. Now your interpretation gives sense to that, especially to the fact that they are the largest ghosts in the picture.

Re: Isidorios's Random Ramblings on the meaning of BAA

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:57 pm
by Isidorios
Well, it's a POSSIBLE answer. Only YK knows where this thing is really going.

A random unrelated thought.....If Mechilzedek can create 99% accurate proxies for Caerula and Arthur (presumably by analyzing the quantum ripples left by their thoughts and actions "that reverberate through time" as Ghost Arthur puts it), then I would imagine that M is quite capable of restoring Lou with all of her memories and experiences from her post-operation days.
You could argue that it's just simulating Arthur, but it's clear that it's approximation of Caerula is so complete that it can negotiate for the Fata Morgana precisely as she would. The practical implicatons of Mchzdk are frightening.