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Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:57 pm
by MrFaber
Well, maybe i missed something but..

Gally mets Erika, they rumble, Erika looks like she has the upper ground, then Gally counterattaks and shows she is all but won. Then she asks to stop fighting and she tells Erika she is a necrosoldier. Erika is shocked and she seems not to believe that.

Then we have Commander Gergt who states that Gally was supposed to become a necrosoldier like ALL OF THEM. Including Erika, i guess. And that doesn't seem to be a secret at all.

So. Did Erika know she is a necrosoldier or not?.

Did i miss anything or it is a plothole?

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:19 pm
by AR-99
Do the Einherjar even know that they're necro soldiers?

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:43 am
by Sergio Nova
Erica (that is the correct spelling) did not know anything, but once it is no longer a secret (as Gally has revealed the truth), Gergt simply goes ahead, as keeping secret does not make sense now.

Obviously, that explanation requires that they were monitoring their fight all the time.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:31 am
by Erigu
Sergio Nova wrote:Erica (that is the correct spelling)
I don't remember that being stated anywhere..
(and if I had to guess, based on the kana spelling and her surname, I'd go with the German "Erika")

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:32 pm
by Sergio Nova
Erigu wrote:
Sergio Nova wrote: I don't remember that being stated anywhere..
(and if I had to guess, based on the kana spelling and her surname, I'd go with the German "Erika")
Erica (female form of Eric) is the standard name even in German, as far as I know. Erika does exist (the same way Phillip, Philip and even Filip and Fillip exist), but it is non-standard.
The kana spelling is no reference to western names, as it would even write Kristian, once C does not exist in that syllabary.

Anyway, it was a simple observation, even because I do not speak German, and I always make lots of mistakes. :oops:

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:47 pm
by MrFaber
I agree. If Erica is the german version of the name (i assumed it was Erika) we should go with that version. Mars is a german speaking territory, and Erica looks like she is a natural born martian. Blond hair seems to be the standard there. Most of the oprhanage girls and of the martians we have seen so far have blonde hair. Even Lameira, who seems to have a little darker hair, is still blonde.

By the way, big question: Is Gally supposed to be Japanese? (At last ethnically speaking). I always assumed so and Yoko is, indeed, a japanese name, but, with manga faces, in the end, who can tell?

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:00 pm
by Sergio Nova
MrFaber wrote: By the way, big question: Is Gally supposed to be Japanese? (At last ethnically speaking). I always assumed so and Yoko is, indeed, a japanese name, but, with manga faces, in the end, who can tell?
Well, Kishiro developed Martian environment after an old legend, from World War II, that the Nazi régime was making flying saucers (and they are shown in the beginning of Mars Chronicle) in order to flee to Mars, where they would build a new Empire. As Germans and Japanese were allies, it makes sense if there are Japanese descendants among them. And, yes, Yoko [葉子]is a Japanese name. The correct transcription would be Yōko, in a first moment, or Yôko, if adapted to Western spelling. Anyway, I have also found Youko and even Yohko.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:20 pm
by Erigu
Sergio Nova wrote:Erica (female form of Eric) is the standard name even in German, as far as I know. Erika does exist (the same way Phillip, Philip and even Filip and Fillip exist), but it is non-standard.
I was under the impression it was the other way around, in Germany, actually...
The kana spelling is no reference to western names, as it would even write Kristian, once C does not exist in that syllabary.
I was actually referring to the long "e" sound, which seems to confirm it's meant to be a German name.

MrFaber wrote:Is Gally supposed to be Japanese? (At last ethnically speaking). I always assumed so and Yoko is, indeed, a japanese name, but, with manga faces, in the end, who can tell?
"Yōko" (actually spelled "陽子") indeed is a Japanese name.

Does that mean Gally is supposed to be of Japanese descent? Well, I'd say that's another matter...

Food for thought:

* Gally's character finds its origins in a "Tuned" female cop character from one of Kishiro's unpublished short stories. While that character was also called "Gally" (a reference to Gully Foyle, the main character of Alfred Bester's The Stars My Destination), that was just a nickname, and her full name was "Karii Yōko" ("狩井陽子"), i.e. a Japanese name there again. And since the story was set in near-future Japan, I think it's fair to assume that previous incarnation of the character was meant to be Japanese.

* The original series had its share of Japanese (or, at the very least, conspicuously Japanese-sounding) names, the most obvious being "Ido Daisuke" (he even wrote his own name in katakana!).
Was Ido, for instance, really meant to be of Japanese descent though? Who's to say? He certainly isn't obviously Japanese, but then again, you probably shouldn't expect Japanese authors to portray their own ethnicity like Western artists would...
Still, one might also argue that the world of Gunnm was still in its infancy at the time and certainly not as well defined as it is now, so maybe we shouldn't overanalyze those early details... or wonder why there's so much Japanese writing in future Kansas City, centuries after Japan was vaporized.

* While the original series didn't reveal much about Gally's actual origins (and thus clues regarding her ethnicity), we did learn quite a few things from Gunnm Martian Memory, the PlayStation game.
For starters, she was the genetic twin of the first queen of Mars. Which could tell us a lot... if we knew more about said queen. Problem is, we weren't even told her name. All we have is the name of a fairly distant descendant of hers, and for what that's worth (not much!), "Remayla" ("リメイラ") doesn't sound Japanese at all.
But we also found out in that game that she got the name "Yōko" from a certain "Dr. Gotō" ("Dr.ゴトー"), and that's yet another Japanese-sounding name (in fact, "Gotō" ("後藤") is a very common Japanese surname). So for all we know, maybe that's the only reason she has a Japanese name: the man who took her in and named her had a Japanese name / was of Japanese descent.
Of course, there's absolutely no guarantee any of the above will still be true in Kishiro's new Last Order / Mars Chronicle continuity. I guess we'll have to wait and see...

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:04 am
by MrFaber
Well, Kishiro developed Martian environment after an old legend, from World War II, that the Nazi régime was making flying saucers (and they are shown in the beginning of Mars Chronicle) in order to flee to Mars,
Odd enough, that legend was originated by actual german and italian flying saucer projects dated back in the WWII

Image

(The title: "The Flying Saucers where ideated in 1942 in Italy and Germany")

But of course they were "original" fakes. The where a forgery from facists and nazi intelligences to leat the allies to think they where developing a new kind of super-aricraft to be feared, in order, probably, to slow down their offensive due to precaution. They made those false extracts from supposed under development projects and made them leak.

In recent years they have been junk material for ufo conspiracy theorist to say "lo, nazis and fascis had contacts with aliens!".

About Ido Daisuke, it makes not much sense he could have a japanese name. Salemites have no ancestors. Probably. They are genetic ingeneering products made by Melchizedek within a general experiment upon human intelligence which, also, provides fresh brains for the quantum matrix,

He is blonde and german/scandinavian looking as all salemites are. But then, salemites have names from everywhere. We have Roscoe and Collins which are definately anglo-american, Eizenburg (or Heisenberg), which is german and Maham, Gaelic, Probably they are just like random names except that newly born salemites inherit their last names from their caretakers.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:57 am
by Kazu-kun
MrFaber wrote:Gally mets Erika, they rumble, Erika looks like she has the upper ground, then Gally counterattaks and shows she is all but won. Then she asks to stop fighting and she tells Erika she is a necrosoldier. Erika is shocked and she seems not to believe that.
What are you talking about? Erica had the upper hand the whole time until Gally revealed that she was a necrosoldier. The mental shock is what allowed Gally to counterattack. Before that point she was getting her ass kicked all over the place.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:12 pm
by MrFaber
Maybe. Or maybe Gally was being soft while building up her on strategy. Probably the duel was about even.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:17 pm
by Sergio Nova
MrFaber wrote:Maybe. Or maybe Gally was being soft while building up her on strategy. Probably the duel was about even.
Or Gally was soft simply because she would not be interested in hurting Erica; after all, they have a past in common, and Erica used to be Yoko's protector.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:15 pm
by Kazu-kun
MrFaber wrote:Maybe. Or maybe Gally was being soft while building up her on strategy. Probably the duel was about even.
I don't think so. If she was holding back, she woudln't have needed to play the psycological card to begin with.

At the very least that's my take until proved otherwise.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:04 am
by MrFaber
It's not like Gally threw in a stake to distract Erica. She genuinely informed Erica about what she found out.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:28 am
by Kazu-kun
MrFaber wrote:It's not like Gally threw in a stake to distract Erica. She genuinely informed Erica about what she found out.
With that timing, right after losing an arm? I don't think so. She did it to get a psychological advantage. And it worked.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:10 pm
by SightlessReality
Kazu-kun wrote:
MrFaber wrote:It's not like Gally threw in a stake to distract Erica. She genuinely informed Erica about what she found out.
With that timing, right after losing an arm? I don't think so. She did it to get a psychological advantage. And it worked.
Alita doesn't care if she loses an arm, she's demonstrated such several time throughout the series. So using that as an indication that she was at a disadvantage isn't that good of a call.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:46 pm
by MrFaber
And it is even the 2nd time she let the opponent sever her arm to use it as a weapon (actually, this time, she severed it herself due to explosive charges, if i got the dialogs right).

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:28 am
by Kazu-kun
MrFaber wrote:And it is even the 2nd time she let the opponent sever her arm to use it as a weapon (actually, this time, she severed it herself due to explosive charges, if i got the dialogs right).
It's not just the arm. The point is that Gally didn't land even one hit before Erica lost her cool after finding out she's a necrosoldier. That means that gaining the psychological advantage was what allowed Gally to get the upper-hand. Could she have won even without psyching Erica out? I don't know. But in this fight, that was the turning point.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:15 pm
by MrFaber
We don't even know if she was able to win at all, the fight wasn't over.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:18 am
by kamugin
We can't even tell if there's a "reality" beyond the experience of our senses, so the question has no meaning.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:46 pm
by Kinai2k7
Kazu-kun wrote:It's not just the arm. The point is that Gally didn't land even one hit before Erica lost her cool after finding out she's a necrosoldier. That means that gaining the psychological advantage was what allowed Gally to get the upper-hand. Could she have won even without psyching Erica out? I don't know. But in this fight, that was the turning point.

I have the impression that Gally wasn't fighting at 100%, instead she was trying to stop the fight with Erica.

Kinai.

:offtopic: Wouldn't the admin change the title of the Board to a more generic one? Because we are not only discussing LO here. :offtopic:

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:35 pm
by AR-99
Any discussion of Gunnm will more likely than not draw back on the prior series because they can't be considered completely separate. Expecting this topic to focus purely on MC is unrealistic.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:33 am
by D3sty
Wouldn't the admin change the title of the Board to a more generic one? Because we are not only discussing LO here.
AR-99 wrote:Any discussion of Gunnm will more likely than not draw back on the prior series because they can't be considered completely separate. Expecting this topic to focus purely on MC is unrealistic.
The OP doesn't ask if this board can be named MC but ask if the board can have a more generic name than BAA - Last Order which sounds like it focuses on just Last Order( instead of the entire Gunnm universe).

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:41 pm
by Kinai2k7
D3sty wrote:The OP doesn't ask if this board can be named MC but ask if the board can have a more generic name than BAA - Last Order which sounds like it focuses on just Last Order( instead of the entire Gunnm universe).

That's it. And I don't know if it had been done before or after I said it, but I saw that the board now is titled: BAA (LO/MC). ;)

Greetings.

Kinai.

Re: Does or doesn't Erika know she is a necrosoldier?

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:34 pm
by ^Ripper
I'm sneaky :)

If anything needs a change, just put a separate topic in "Comments and suggestions."
I don't bite.