Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

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D3sty
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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by D3sty » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:38 pm

Thanks for the episode.

I still don't get why Muster is portaraited as evil and a villain. It seems to me that everyone else on Mars is a right-bleedin' bastard. Untill now, he hasn't done anything extremely evil. He has taken a little girl under his wings and teaches her valuable life lessons, makes sure another little girl has a loving mother and a safe enviroment, recycles precious materials on Mars, dishes out some sweet revenge for his family and his condition and keeps the powers that be on Mars in check.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by youngred » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:36 pm

Well... he has killed a lot of innocent people. And engaged in, what was it? Murders, robberies, and kidnappings all across Mars? Plus the lessons he's taught Erika have mostly been about how to deceive or assassinate people.

I think he's an interesting character because, despite being very villainous, he also has some redeeming qualities. In a way. I think he was probably a good-natured person before he went mad and turned into a villain.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:42 pm

He's just a man hellbent on revenge especially against Cydonia he mentioned "Once, I was also a good man who loved life and his family" (ref. ch 15.2), but that was taken away from a certain persona at Cydonia. Which make sense why he is always conspiring against Cydonia. He seems to be nihilistic and wants Erica to be the same as being too naive can be dangerous.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by kamugin » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:55 am

The whole chapter 20 (parts 1 and 2) was sausage filling (thanks Sergio). Damjan's true colors and consequent demise were as surprising as taking a rabbit out of a hat. C'mon we deserve better than this!

I'm reading "The Promised Nederland" now, this one is able to keep me interested in what will happen next.

Sadly Dorohedoro is reaching its end, but it was never a let down. It is probably the most creative manga/comic book I have ever read.
The Hell is here, life itself is hell and humans are at the same time the demons and the damned.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:30 am

kamugin wrote:The whole chapter 20 (parts 1 and 2) was sausage filling (thanks Sergio). Damjan's true colors and consequent demise were as surprising as taking a rabbit out of a hat. C'mon we deserve better than this!

I'm reading "The Promised Nederland" now, this one is able to keep me interested in what will happen next.

Sadly Dorohedoro is reaching its end, but it was never a let down. It is probably the most creative manga/comic book I have ever read.
Is it "Nederland" or is it Neverland if it is that manga you're talking about while not necessarily bad, Hunter X Hunter is a much better choice. Ignoring it's frequent break and rushed art it's writing it the most intelligent thing I have ever seen (intelligence doesn't equal quality or assessing it as being the best necessarily). Seriously Hunter x hunter is one of the greatest manga in the world and any manga fan owes themselves to read it. It gets god tier good at chimera ant arc.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:01 am

Adding a humorous comment. Lots of these people must have went to a high grade acting class they are so good they can pretend to sweat showing signs of nervousness. That is amazing and play along with scenarios. Also Damjan killing himself would make sense since he listed reason his hatred for Erica which turns out what he is (haughty, arrogant selfish and a liar) all those traits made sense he killed himself because that is what he is in a nutshell (plus a sadist) what a cold broken stone hypocrite.

Seriously though I thought the route the author would go is Muster kill Damjan out of enjoyment and see Erica distraught reaction to gain enjoyment, thus motivating Erica to rebel Muster and make her turn cynical. But that wasn't the case and looking on the positive of this chapter we learnt that Grunthal is part of the 18 archdukes. (one of them anyway)

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by kamugin » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:21 am

00_unit wrote: Is it "Nederland" or is it Neverland if it is that manga you're talking about while not necessarily bad, Hunter X Hunter is a much better choice.
"The Promised Neverland" is right, "Nederland" was some nonsense sprouted by my smartphone keyboard, sorry. I have never read Hunter X Hunter, but I might take a look.
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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:24 am

kamugin wrote:
00_unit wrote: Is it "Nederland" or is it Neverland if it is that manga you're talking about while not necessarily bad, Hunter X Hunter is a much better choice.
"The Promised Neverland" is right, "Nederland" was some nonsense sprouted by my smartphone keyboard, sorry. I have never read Hunter X Hunter, but I might take a look.

It has a slow start but eventually it will reach to an arc that will make you say it is worth it, the writing is so detailed and full of psychological themes that it could later take 10 minutes to read per chapter given its intricate details. (especially at the chimera ant arc)

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by kamugin » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:50 am

00_unit wrote:
It has a slow start but eventually it will reach to an arc that will make you say it is worth it, the writing is so detailed and full of psychological themes that it could later take 10 minutes to read per chapter given its intricate details. (especially at the chimera ant arc)
I started reading the first volume, I'm giving it a try but I don't have much patience with shounen manga that drags for too long. I gave up One Piece around volume 15 and, at least initially, Hunter X Hunter is very similar to One Piece.
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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by kamugin » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:28 am

00_unit wrote: Seriously though I thought the route the author would go is Muster kill Damjan out of enjoyment and see Erica distraught reaction to gain enjoyment, thus motivating Erica to rebel Muster and make her turn cynical. But that wasn't the case and looking on the positive of this chapter we learnt that Grunthal is part of the 18 archdukes. (one of them anyway)
Albeit knowing that it wouldn't happen, I was hoping that Damjan would put some bullets on Muster's face, because he is a rather annoying character already far past his time to die. Seriously, is Muster the reason why Erica become evil? Was it because she had a "master in evilness"!?! Right, there was also some parents related trauma, kind of a twisted Batman origin... Fuck you Kishiro!! You turned one of the best manga I have ever read not better than a dumb manicheist comic book! That's the main reason I'm really disappointed with this Martian arch.
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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:58 am

kamugin wrote:
00_unit wrote: Seriously though I thought the route the author would go is Muster kill Damjan out of enjoyment and see Erica distraught reaction to gain enjoyment, thus motivating Erica to rebel Muster and make her turn cynical. But that wasn't the case and looking on the positive of this chapter we learnt that Grunthal is part of the 18 archdukes. (one of them anyway)
Albeit knowing that it wouldn't happen, I was hoping that Damjan would put some bullets on Muster's face, because he is a rather annoying character already far past his time to die. Seriously, is Muster the reason why Erica become evil? Was it because she had a "master in evilness"!?! Right, there was also some parents related trauma, kind of a twisted Batman origin... Fuck you Kishiro!! You turned one of the best manga I have ever read not better than a dumb manicheist comic book! That's the main reason I'm really disappointed with this Martian arch.
I think the problem that some fans will have with this arc is how it is too different from the series old writing style. One of them is how the antagonist are written differently, for one they act like one dimensional villainous maniacs, the old chapter gives a little depth to them giving more insights on their character and how they became the individuals they are at their debut.

Plus I think Erica becomes evil from the moment Yoko killed her, I think that was the final straw for Erica and after she was reborn as a nercro soldier maybe she became obsess with her hatred and anger on the world and Yoko.

Also he was annoying when he showed his true persona as I find hypocrites one of the most loathsome and annoying type of people in the world.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:09 am

kamugin wrote:
00_unit wrote:
It has a slow start but eventually it will reach to an arc that will make you say it is worth it, the writing is so detailed and full of psychological themes that it could later take 10 minutes to read per chapter given its intricate details. (especially at the chimera ant arc)
I started reading the first volume, I'm giving it a try but I don't have much patience with shounen manga that drags for too long. I gave up One Piece around volume 15 and, at least initially, Hunter X Hunter is very similar to One Piece.
I personally think it gets good around volume 6 (not god tier good yet though) and you'll see it improving exponentially volume by volume.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:19 am

kamugin wrote:
00_unit wrote: Seriously though I thought the route the author would go is Muster kill Damjan out of enjoyment and see Erica distraught reaction to gain enjoyment, thus motivating Erica to rebel Muster and make her turn cynical. But that wasn't the case and looking on the positive of this chapter we learnt that Grunthal is part of the 18 archdukes. (one of them anyway)
Albeit knowing that it wouldn't happen, I was hoping that Damjan would put some bullets on Muster's face, because he is a rather annoying character already far past his time to die. Seriously, is Muster the reason why Erica become evil? Was it because she had a "master in evilness"!?! Right, there was also some parents related trauma, kind of a twisted Batman origin... Fuck you Kishiro!! You turned one of the best manga I have ever read not better than a dumb manicheist comic book! That's the main reason I'm really disappointed with this Martian arch.
Well you make a point though the first thing fiction should do is to entertain readers. I don't think the series currently has weak writing, but it doesn't write in a way that make some fans engage and be enthralled like the old days. But being fair as I try to be unbias as humanly possible.
You have to understand Erica is just a child and meaning her thought process is different from an adults, also meaning that they are more impressionable and don't have a mind as strong as an adult in their 30s or greater.


Let's analyse Erica's hardships: separated from Yoko who she values as a friend, seeing corpses disposed(for an adult it's not shocking but for a kid it is a different story,she had a near death experience at the himmel bruch), killing her parents(although some won't feel guilty, she is different from some as she acknowledge what she did is wrong and believed she'll be punished by not obtaining happiness). Seeing the person she fell in love with died and turn out to be evil( no adult will be this naive but she is kid so it is acceptable and some children have this kind of character making feel genuine enough).

While Makaku only had one bad experience(being burnt to death) that is it. Alita's motivation for being blood thirsty gun tootling warrior, was her search for Ido and being banished from scrapyard city( two bad experience). Arthur was her girlfriend being killed(which is generic). Alita had a generic reason for joining motorball(hugo's death). Now I don't bash generic all the time, but it seems you are not fairly evaluating the series overall and seem to be blinded by nostalgia (as I read this series at 2014)

If you ask me Erica been through worse (she had her hand bitten off which sounds really painful and her eye stabbed and much more), yet she didn't turn extremely evil.

Although I would agree with how he conveys the message and story that could be better(panelling for the chapters has good eye flow though.) I think one of the key things to hate a series less is re thinking in different perspectives to see it in new light and try to understand the characters(compassion) and authors direction(even though you might not agree with it).

Do excuse me for my long ramblings I can talk a too long sometimes, let me know if I'm wrong, right or both :D

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by VehicleReversing » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:16 am

Now that's a contrived way of hiding a thing (The maze better have some other uses).
As to how the story is going I'd say that it's a lot less "dense" than the 1st series, you've got all these full panel character shots that aren't necessary or as visually interesting as the cool detailed cyborgs we used to get, the author seems a bit too obsessed with 3d-modelling all the world-building stuff now (Also looking back gunnm pretty much changes genre and have a new arc every volume). I just wish that everything could move just a bit faster :?

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by Sergio Nova » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:04 pm

VehicleReversing wrote:I just wish that everything could move just a bit faster :?
I agree the pace is slow, but as we can see, the pieces are sewing in a way that we can find the answers to several questions we joined along the two first arcs.
Also, I thought we would have a volume with Yoko-Erica's childhood and then a volume with the necrosoldier quest, but now I see that even the necrosildier quest depends on the seams in their childhoods.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:12 pm

Sergio Nova wrote:
VehicleReversing wrote:I just wish that everything could move just a bit faster :?
I agree the pace is slow, but as we can see, the pieces are sewing in a way that we can find the answers to several questions we joined along the two first arcs.
Also, I thought we would have a volume with Yoko-Erica's childhood and then a volume with the necrosoldier quest, but now I see that even the necrosildier quest depends on the seams in their childhoods.
The first part of Battle Angel was easy to read was because it was already completed by the time people read the series, while Mars Chronicles we have to wait monthly instead of reading it at a rapid rate.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by kamugin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:38 pm

00_unit wrote: Well you make a point though the first thing fiction should do is to entertain readers. I don't think the series currently has weak writing, but it doesn't write in a way that make some fans engage and be enthralled like the old days. But being fair as I try to be unbias as humanly possible.
You have to understand Erica is just a child and meaning her thought process is different from an adults, also meaning that they are more impressionable and don't have a mind as strong as an adult in their 30s or greater.
Man, you didn't get it. The problem isn't Erica, the problem is Muster, I. E. the process by which Erica turns out evil. Muster is a clown, shallow and as dumb as a comic book villain, nothing like an agent of chaos like Nova. Yet, he has some consistency, he seeks for revenge and revenge can turn a man into stone, but going into withdrawal because of not killing is idiotic, not dark humor.
And Kishiro is taking, again, some enormous, but this time fucking annoying, detour before showing us what we want to see, if he ever will, since the so anticipated reunion between Alita and Erica was so lame.
Last edited by kamugin on Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by kamugin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:06 pm

00_unit wrote: The first part of Battle Angel was easy to read was because it was already completed by the time people read the series, while Mars Chronicles we have to wait monthly instead of reading it at a rapid rate.
Kishiro started Gunnm in 1990, while it's true that I had a late start, I began reading it around the end of 1998, it has been 18 fucking years now. Perhaps mangakas should be forbidden to drag a story no longer than 20 years. I bet Gunnm will reach 30 years plus a few more (if Kishiro doesn't have another crisis).
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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:33 am

kamugin wrote:
00_unit wrote: Well you make a point though the first thing fiction should do is to entertain readers. I don't think the series currently has weak writing, but it doesn't write in a way that make some fans engage and be enthralled like the old days. But being fair as I try to be unbias as humanly possible.
You have to understand Erica is just a child and meaning her thought process is different from an adults, also meaning that they are more impressionable and don't have a mind as strong as an adult in their 30s or greater.
Man, you didn't get it. The problem isn't Erica, the problem is Muster, I. E. the process by which Erica turns out evil. Muster is a clown, shallow and as dumb as a comic book villain, nothing like an agent of chaos like Nova. Yet, he has some consistency, he seeks for revenge and revenge can turn a man into stone, but going into withdrawal because of not killing is idiotic, not dark humor.
And Kishiro is taking, again, some enormous, but this time fucking annoying, detour before showing us what we want to see, if he ever will, since the so anticipated reunion between Alita and Erica was so lame.
I actually agree with this point very valid, your main criticism is the use of Muster as being too over the top and he just comes out as a one dimensional character making him not that grounded in the whole series. He is like those retro disney villian who is evil for the sake of it. A lot of readers prefer characters that has layers rather than being a cartoonishly cliche archetype villian which many considers obsolete story writing.

Berserk uses one dimensional villains more skillfully due to how he conveys there evil traits through art and the shocking moments the readers experience(Berserk is the only manga that hasn't decline and lasted longer than battle angel 28 years)
Last edited by 00_unit on Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:47 am

kamugin wrote:
00_unit wrote: The first part of Battle Angel was easy to read was because it was already completed by the time people read the series, while Mars Chronicles we have to wait monthly instead of reading it at a rapid rate.
Kishiro started Gunnm in 1990, while it's true that I had a late start, I began reading it around the end of 1998, it has been 18 fucking years now. Perhaps mangakas should be forbidden to drag a story no longer than 20 years. I bet Gunnm will reach 30 years plus a few more (if Kishiro doesn't have another crisis).
Technically it did ended in 1995. Some consider Last order and mars chronicle a what if scenario (a different route) rather than a continuation.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by Sergio Nova » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:42 pm

00_unit wrote:Technically it did ended in 1995. Some consider Last order and mars chronicle a what if scenario (a different route) rather than a continuation.
I agree with the first part: it did end in 1995; but I cannot see Last Order as a what if, but as a reinterpretation.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by kuroro86 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:23 pm

I agree with several pointhere :

On Muster here, but I take in main account that he is going to die . YK doesn't want to spend time with him, he is just a plot tool for the story , like Chavez was in the short story and several character ( mainly the bounty hunters ) in the original series.
The had characteristics but they where flat at the end , I can recall them nicely but I didn't care when they died.

I never thought of Last Order as a remake or a what if or reinterpretation. as far as I understood YK wanted to keep Alita going but he wanted to close because he felt he wrote himself in a corner so he closed and did the same of Last Order.

I'm also a bit bored from this storyline. But I believe the end is soon , an we are going back to the future :geek:

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by 00_unit » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:34 pm

I guess last order and mars chronicle is the story that he wants to write instead of ending it prematurely in the first series due to his illness.

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Re: Gummn - Mars Chronicle 020 (part 2) Is out!

Post by Novel Kars » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:06 am

IDK if muster will be going away tbh. If my predictions follow through, then there will be someone who has to be muster-like character to initiate a chaotic change. It may not be muster, but someone completely different though.

On the other hand, I may have been wrong all along and the story might just as well be near its end with muster dying without much action. TBH, if that happens, it will be underwhelming and sort of disappointing. :/

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