BA Alita movie details

[Sergio Nova]

We wait for one month, and they change the premiere date one year.
Next year they gonna say the premiere date will be 2023

time to forget this movie even exists !

HumanRage is right. I myself would prefer it postponed to 2223, thus Cameron would not commit another of his uncountable crimes. Or do you really believe someone with the "talent" and "sensibility" of making pieces of trash like Rambo and Piranha, just to mention two cases, is recommended to film our Gally? Although I have to admit that the Wachowski brothers would be worse. Have you seen V for Vendetta?

[moooV]

In my opinion, it JUST doesn't have to be made. (Why - read previous pages.)

[Sergio Nova]

In my opinion, it JUST doesn't have to be made. (Why - read previous pages.)

Brilliant! I applaud you!

[hepar]

Let's see how "Watchman" will go, and then I'll say if we really need this film to be made.

[denzacar]

In my opinion, it JUST doesn't have to be made. (Why - read previous pages.)

It WILL be made. Sooner or later, it will be made.
Now... If I had to choose between current "brand name" directors - I think I'd still stay with Cameron.

If nothing else - then for the Dark Angel. Which was obviously influenced by Battle Angel Alita.
From characters, through the post-apocalyptic world to the shots of Max looking over the Vista of the Seattle that are carbon copies of the scene from the manga.
But most of all - he created a believable and coherent universe for the story.

Also... I love what he did with the Abyss and the level of involvement he has shown during the making of that movie.

On top of all that - he DOES have the rights.

Let's see how "Watchman" will go, and then I'll say if we really need this film to be made.

Completely different thing.
Yes, it is complex. Yes, it has a huge opinionated fanbase. Yes, it is a great work of literature. Yes, it has cool and complex characters.
But it can't be compared to BAA.

First, it is WAY shorter. Both story and page-wise.
BAA happens over several years - Watchmen starts and finishes in couple of days.
Original BAA is 9 volumes. Watchmen is 1.
BAA is distant post apocalyptic world. Watchmen is a parallel 1980s universe.
BAA is centered around a central character. Watchmen is an ensemble with no main character.
BAA is much clearer on the good guys<=>bad guys front. Watchmen makes a point about being purposely ambiguous.
One is a super hero story, the other isn't... Etc. Etc.

Also... Zack Snyder is a young, unproven director.
A zombie flick and a movie based on a Frank Miller's comic ARE NOT really enough to base judgment on. A blind man could do a Frank Miller movie. Just tell everyone to copy what they see in the pictures.

Personally, I like what I saw in the trailer for the Watchmen. But I will wait till it comes out before I start calling Snyder "Brilliant!".
Remember Wachowsky brothers and Richard Kelly.
One GREAT hit and then... like... what happened?

[moooV]

[Maybe I'm wrong, who knows]
I don't want this movie to be ever made. No matter who are a director and actors. BAA is a masterpiece, it deserves to stay untouched. I don't want to see some "adaptation"...

[hepar]

Completely different thing.

Well, I'm just saying that if you can fail a story that have been already put in "frames", there's no hope in this world.

Rather than lurking for differences let's see if there's a similarity:
Both're comic books. That means that hair and costumes etc will look entirely different. If you look at the last Batman's film you'll see that the only guy who seems unnatural in that univerce is batman himself.
Because his costume is tha last thing that you should've put into screen. Harvey seems natural, Joker seems natural, Ras Alghoul does seem natural - but Batman doesn't.
So i'm very concerned if they can ever make a living been out of a living bean...... Err... *Coff*

So living actreess, I do believe, cannot like look up ahead with "eyes of a warrior" etc - because it's unnatural. There's no emotion in this world that would be expressed like this. On contrary, this emotion do exist in comic books. It's the first thing that eye catches in movies - it's often called a poor play, but I believe that this isn't an actor's fault but rather directors.

If you look at WM trailer again you'll see that when CG used characters seems on the right places:
Manhetton - naked blue man, drawn on computer will always seems natural whithin his unnaturality, so it's only matter of CG. However if they want to use actor to play his face his emotions would be played poor. Because M. has very different inner world from human's. You have to be genius to play him properly, however the guy who dissolves in the trailer's first scene doesn't even seem like his going to shit his bricks out - I don't believe in his play already.
Owl - well he kicks bad guys very well - cuz it was drawn on a computer, but in other scenes his cloak and a costume stifting his movements.
Girl - has the eyes of a warrior - the stupidest and poorest played expression in the entire trailer.
Err... Flamethrower guy wit sigar - he looks good, but too grotesque.
Rorschach - as far as i can see he is the most believeable guy there. Because he has no cloak, no wings, no blue parts. His expression is covered under white [wool+paper - don't know the right word] mask with no eyeholes. The lackage of face seems more natural and scary in movies than every single made up mask or rubber glasses like Predator or Batman have - eg Nsghoul #1 in LoR.

So i'm not expecting much from WM movie. Plot and action will be good while all costumes exept Rorschach's will look bad, and maybe act.
That's why I'm afraid of Gunnm ecranisation. I haven't seen any movie based on comics that successfully brought such details into frame.

[Sergio Nova]

Yes, it is complex. Yes, it has a huge opinionated fanbase. Yes, it is a great work of literature. Yes, it has cool and complex characters.

A blind man could do a Frank Miller movie. Just tell everyone to copy what they see in the pictures.

Remember Wachowsky brothers and Richard Kelly.

Well, it seems we agree in some points:

1. Watchmen - exactly.
2. Frank Miller - I agree with the first part, saying that Miller is a genius. But the joke is exaggerated. A blind man would never copy what he sees in the pictures for obvious reasons.
3. My opinion about the Wachowsky brothers is already known.
4. Forgive my ignorance, but who is Richard Kelly

[HumanRage]

i already wrote my point of view on the movie, it should be earlier in that thread.

what i basically said, is to take the good points and just take the rest as required-for-the-public changes

i expected LOTR a lot, and was dying to see spoiler pictures during all the 12month preprod and 18month shooting of the three movies, and i even read complete reviews by hardcore fans of a divx press-release with the disclaimer at the bottom of the picture before going to the real show, i guess the only way to be more hardcore is to move to NZ to spy by myself


but when i saw the first minutes in the shire, i was dreaming awake. i was prepared for everything going wrong, i was expecting scenes i knew will only be in the extended version, and i don't throw any stone on peter jackson, sorry for that.

what i want to see in Battle Angel ? the scrapyard, cyborgs every where, with the shadow of zalem, ido finding gally (i'm having goosebumps just by anticipating that )...

i don't really care how fidel it will be, of course the most the better but i know this will not be as violent and tragic as it should be, plain and simple


can't you guys just stop getting angry about things you can't control ? enjoy what it's to enjoy in the final result, it's life you have to do that for things of life too !

peace !

[Noizepug73]

Well this may be heresy, but I actually prefer the fantasy notion of Snyder doing BAA. 300's battle scenes, while feeling like a videogame replete with "boss stage finals" were still breathtakingly choreographed (I'll nerd out here, it's hard to get the fraction-of-a-second image of the Spartan's feet digging in from the very first attack on them out of my head...it was a sort of "taste" of the sheer numbers they were up against). And both Dawn Of The Dead (which I enjoyed) and 300 have a sort of visual aesthetic to them, a dedicated color palette that Snyder seems to have a mastery of (and I see again in the Watchmen trailers). Snyder seems to have this knack for making sanitized mainstream films engaging for diehard fans, and with that last bit, I'd say he is on equal footing with Cameron (who I am VERY sceptical with directing BAA).

I'll be the first to say, Alita is equal measures...if not larger scoopfuls of measures...of pathos ALONG with the action. But if there IS to be "big hollywood action", it MUST be as stylized as Kishiro has done it! I think Cameron is adequate to capture these nuances as he'd proven (albeit comically) with True Lies. I've only seen fragments of Titanic, so I can't comment more heavily on that. Though Decaprio's death scene was one of the saddest I've seen, and morbidly gives me "hope" that Cameron could capture that in BAA.

I have faith, my mind tends to be more open to the realities of what a boardroom of producers (morons) dictates than what I'd REALLY like to see! I just don't let it destroy my day (Judge Dredd though WAS A FUCKING ATROCITY!!! LOL! Another screen-adapted book I'd read "in my youth").

[Sergio Nova]

Let me endorse Noizepug73.
Snyder, novice or veteran, does know how to tell a story.

I had completely forgotten Peter jackson, but Noizepug73 is again right.

Many have said I am intolerant about Cameron. That is not the problem. Even I would tell stories better, and I prefer to applaud who is better that I am.

[vilma21]

this moc=vie will probly not get made and if it dose it will be realy low grade i feel. it's takeing way to long and aparently camron has better thing's too do <momo>
he got the right so basicla no one ealse can make it, sometime's men are real biggots!!!

[Sergio Nova]

Hey, denzacar, my question was serious: who is Richard Kelly?

[crazyankan]

Hey, denzacar, my question was serious: who is Richard Kelly?

If I am not mistaken, it's the dude that made Donnie Darko(excellent movie)

[Rothfuchs]

Well, I'll just say what i said so often about Adaptions from Comic to Movie:

Anyway WE are the winners

- When it's a success we can say: "We were with it from the beginning" (of the Manga)

-When it's a fail we can say: "I know the Manga, it's far more superior"

But I admit, IF Alita, then as a Anime...problem is that as long as Kishiro doesn't finish it, i don'T want it, because like other parallel running Manga/Anime franchises it would have far too much Fillers in it...and seeing Kishiro's Masterpeice nothing near complete (or half-way through), we would run for YEARS on pure Filler content T_T

[moooV]

Anyway WE are the winners

- When it's a success we can say: "We were with it from the beginning" (of the Manga)

-When it's a fail we can say: "I know the Manga, it's far more superior"

I object this. =///
We are not winners, no matter of the outcome. (See previous pages)

[Chrome]

Personally, I don't give a fuck about all those people who only saw the movie and never read the book, or those who say that the book is boring and that the movie is way better (We love you Orlando Bloom!!) - as long as they don't address me or try to talk to me about the movie or the books. Any books.

Just had to react to this for a moment.

Isn't it hypocritical to state your opinion as fact, and refuse to discuss the matter, on a piece of technology that is specifically made to make discussions possible?

The LOTR movie was a movie, not a book. Why exactly all the changes have been made has been made very clear by it's creators, and almost all the changes are completely justified (way too long to go into that here, you can look it up quite easily).

The problems in bringing it to the big screen lie in the fact that you're going from a written story to a visual one. You can't, ever, do that on a 1 on 1 basis. This is because of how a book is structured, and how people read it, it's a completely different medium from a movie, a piece of music, a theater production or a radio play. To go from one to the other, you have to adapt it to the medium, since if you try to stick to the structure of the material's original medium you are forcing in techniques that simply are not possible, and leaving out others that are never used otherwise. The trick is to keep the story and spirit, but make the translation properly instead of literally. It's a lot like trying to translate something from French to English literally, it just sounds like gibberish.

For example, translating a theater play directly to a movie removes the 4th wall and reinforces it at the same time, a redundancy that becomes very clear if you watch older movies which are exactly that. It creates a very uneasy feeling on the viewer. At the same time, it loses out on soemthing simple like camera angles, which can greatly enhance any situation in the theater, improving the suspension of disbelief, and effectively replacing the feel of being in an audience. I don't know how exactly to describe it, but if you've seen any theater play on TV or whereever you should know what i mean, especially if you've also seen it live.

The exact same thing happens with going from book to film. The simple act of adding a camera to the events changes the narrative, and you can never make a 1 on 1 translation from book to film because of this - All you can do is take the story and spirit of it, and make it into a good movie, not a book, and that's exactly what happened with LOTR.




However, this does not have to happen with the Gunnm movie, since the medium "manga" lies so much closer to a movie - It's basically a storyboard ready-made. The movie will either be a fairly faithful translation, or a complete muck-up, and nothing in between. I'd put a good amount of money on that.

The things that can go wrong are, for example, the character looks. I expect Cameron to keep the individual differences, rather than the actual looks. It's simply not possible to have real people look exactly like the characters in the manga, especially Gally herself. So far, the only character in the manga that looks *real* is Nova, in the ouroboros scene, which is why it's so easy to agree on an actor for him for most of us.

Sound is another thing. I do think that the voices will be a big point of discussion, but eventually they will sound like the actor's voices... Nothing you can do there. However you imagined someone's voice would be, you *can't* know how it should be, because you can't read the author's mind. The environmental sounds though are fairly well-established in the manga, and even though no one ever heard them before, i think it's the one part of the movie no one will ever complain about.

Visuals, apart from the characters (maybe just the faces) are also pretty much set in stone. Cameron will most probably stick "to the letter" on them.

Stuff that might be changed is the stuff that has no direct place in a movie that can only last for about 2-2,5 hours. Makaku for example really only affects Kansas. He sets up a small part about the Gally/Kansas relationship, and only hints at Nova. It's a big action setpiece in the first volume, but ultimately only serves to set up the scrapyard, and Gally's fighting. Since the first 3 volumes are taken together, he will very probably be scrapped, since he's simply not needed.

Of course, people can start complaining about this, but it's essentially the same as the entire Tom Bombadil whining in LOTR, where it's exactly the same situation. If it were a series, he'd be put in, but it'll be a movie, so stuff has to be cut in order to make the things that actually matter stick out more.




What i expect the movie to be:

Story wise, the movie will focus on the relations between Gally, Ido and Hugo. Gally's background is a subplot, nothing more, exactly like it was in the manga (iirc, only Ido knows that Gally is from Mars, untill she discusses her dreams with her Motorball mechanics... It's very rarely mentioned in the manga). Gally will be found by Ido, and the hunter-warrior subplot will follow, setting up her fighting style, background and her relationship with Ido. Hugo will follow, and here i think the movie will almost literally follow the manga, with the exception of Zapan - I'm not sure Cameron wants to establish this character, especially since Makaku won't be included. He will most probably only be "the villain" in the second movie, but that's still up in the air.

After Hugo's death, Gally will flee to motorball, slowly building a relationship with Jashugan, and going back to her relationship with Ido. I'm not sure where the movie will end, but i guess they will make volume 5 a relatively short section, only linking the motorball ending to the tuned story, thus being able to end the first movie in the middle of the motorball story, creating a cliffhanger of sorts.

[hlcws]

Or it may start with motorball and everything comes in flashbacks

[Sergio Nova]

What incommodes is that, in many cases, filmmakers decide to narrate a completely different story. Or would you really call V for Vendetta an adaptation?

Actually, V for Vendetta is already a perfect storyboard (as it happened with 300 and Sin City), but the cynical brothers believed themselves to be more creative than the original creator. The result was profanation, not art.

The difficulty I see in filming Gunnm is that the responsible filmmaker has to be a good director of actors, first of all. Characters like Shumira, Vilma, Nova, Erica and Gerda have strengths that less prepared directors would never be able to reproduce.

Tell me: do you know any great character directed by Cameron?

[denzacar]

Hey, denzacar, my question was serious: who is Richard Kelly?

Sorry.. I wasn't here for a while.

The "Donnie Darko" director.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0446819/

So naturally, when it was announced that he is making another movie like THAT everyone was excited.
Until Southland Tales came out.
Now... I've read the prequel comic and still I was confused and WTF-ed. I can only imagine how the rest of the audience felt watching that. XD

@hepar: You should read the Watchmen.
It is not your regular superhero story. It is not Spiderman or X-men like story, nor is it the new DK Batman story.
Its a more than little satirical piece on the entire superhero genre.
Costumes are there more to point out how unrealistic all of them are - it is a world where at one point it was perfectly normal for people to dress in latex and jump across rooftops chasing criminals.

A world whose Superman is more like some Bizaro Superman (plus all the human psychic problems) and whose Batmen (all 3 of them) fail in comparison to Bruce Wayne. Neither has the complete set of skills or resources or beliefs.

The LOTR movie was a movie, not a book. Why exactly all the changes have been made has been made very clear by it's creators, and almost all the changes are completely justified (way too long to go into that here, you can look it up quite easily).

I... DON'T... CARE.

Peter Jackson can argue and justify his point all day if he likes - to me he ruined the saga.
Third movie in particular bares almost no resemblance to the book.
It could be any old fantasy story.

I could maybe give in to the changes if they were made to cut the cost or whatever... They weren't.
They were made cause Peter and his merry band of idiots decided they can dick around with the story and make it better. More intense. Funner.

To me, what he did there is akin to what a deeply religious christian might feel about a "serious" (not some lampooning Lestlie Nielsen crap) Jesus movie that features chace sequences and kung fu fights and Jesus using superpowers and wearing a costume. Preferably with a big shiny cross on his chest.

The problems in bringing it to the big screen lie in the fact that you're going from a written story to a visual one. You can't, ever, do that on a 1 on 1 basis.

Yes you can.
Frank Miller did it with Sin City. Zack Snyder did it with 300.
Now... both of those are Miller's comics to start with, and like I said earlier - those are quite easy to convert to the screen.
Still... It CAN be done. Right.

And then there are a million ways of doing it wrong.
Think Dick Tracy. Or Ang Lee's Hulk with that idiotic attempt at creating the comic book feel with those multiple screens.
Or the decline of Batman franchise since 1989 up until Batman Begins.
Or Superman movies after Richard Donner.
Or Punisher.

For example, translating a theater play directly to a movie removes the 4th wall and reinforces it at the same time, a redundancy that becomes very clear if you watch older movies which are exactly that. It creates a very uneasy feeling on the viewer. At the same time, it loses out on soemthing simple like camera angles, which can greatly enhance any situation in the theater, improving the suspension of disbelief, and effectively replacing the feel of being in an audience. I don't know how exactly to describe it, but if you've seen any theater play on TV or whereever you should know what i mean, especially if you've also seen it live.

Not necessarily.
I've seen both good and bad plays transferred to the TV screen in both good and bad ways. In many cases, by just taping a play at the theater and replaying it on TV.
It is a lot up to the director and the actors.

All you can do is take the story and spirit of it, and make it into a good movie, not a book, and that's exactly what happened with LOTR.

No. LotR WAS that for the first movie.
OK... lets drop a scene or two. Throw away a less important character here and there.
Even the Liv Tyler can be excused in the first movie. I mean... WTF is Glorfindel, right?

But second movie just went in a whole new direction making it up as they were going along.
Adding scenes that weren't there, cutting out scenes that were, changing characters and their persuasions as they saw fit (Faramir was turned into a fucking villain, Treebeard and rest of the Ents into idiots, Sam and Frodo into little gay men...).

And then came the turd movie.

Which they apparently decided to make just to see how far can they bend it and still have it vaguely resemble LotR.

However, this does not have to happen with the Gunnm movie, since the medium "manga" lies so much closer to a movie

Please, don't.

Its like saying you can't drown in the ocean, cause the medium "sea" is not flowing like a river.

Manga just stands for Japanise comics.
Just comparing BAA and GITS should be enough to point out the difference between two story-, art- and setting-vise very close manga.
Compare it to Azumanga Daioh (which is also A manga) for further insight.

The things that can go wrong are, for example, the character looks. I expect Cameron to keep the individual differences, rather than the actual looks. It's simply not possible to have real people look exactly like the characters in the manga, especially Gally herself.

Actually, THAT is quite an easy part.
99% of characters are cyborgs.
Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime despite Michael Bay's lack of tallent.
And so are Boba Fett and Dart Vader and all the Batmen.

All Batmen look alike. Bruces on the other hand...

I agree on the sound and setting matters.
Cyborg sounds and post-apocalyptic industrial sounds stay the same. Not much to screw up there.

Makaku for example really only affects Kansas. He sets up a small part about the Gally/Kansas relationship, and only hints at Nova. It's a big action setpiece in the first volume, but ultimately only serves to set up the scrapyard, and Gally's fighting. Since the first 3 volumes are taken together, he will very probably be scrapped, since he's simply not needed.

I see him possibly, blended with or just replaced by Zapan. Again... that can be done in a good way, or in a bad way.
Agent Elrond and The Daughter of Aerosmith are nothing compared to the amazing fuckup that is almost every... no.. EVERY character in Wanted.

What i expect the movie to be:

I can't agree with that.

Frank Kapra once said that every great movie needs only 4 characters.
Good guy, Bad guy, Funny guy and a Girl.

Now... Funny guy can often be blended into other characters, making the Hero a bit of a bumbling twit or the Girl a sassy or silly character.
But the Hero-Villain-Girl combo is essential.

And while Hero (Gally) and the Girl (Hugo and Ido, and even Jashugan) are there to act as a potential love interest untill Figure and Kaos emerge later on - there is no central villain until Nova appears later in vol. 5.
OK... Motorball arc can go without a "real" villain for a while. You have a bunch of battles and there is a strong opponent in Jashugan.

But, unless you leave both Makaku AND Zapan in the story, you must either blend them into one character or drop one of them and push the other one the whole time.
Or you will end up with Star Wars prequels.

Ep. 1 - Darth Maul. "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last.. UPS! I'm dead."
Ep. 2 - My name is Count Docula. I suck blood. Sorry, gotta run.
Ep. 3. - Here I am again, Count Docula. No... I'm dead too.
Palpatine is the villain this time.
Or maybe not... can't be sure.
Maybe its the "shoot me in this exact spot for instant kill" robot.
Or the guy who is supposed to be the Hero.
Wait a second... if the Hero is the Villain... then... WhoTF is the Hero?
Ah fuck it... here... shiny effects.


Personally, I'd rather have a deeper Mapan or Zakaku than neither of them.
Makaku could (barely) survive the battle with Alita, and roam the Scrapyard through the entire Motorball arc, adopt a new body and identity (Zapan), tragically fall in love, accidentally kill her, go crazy again and have the second Zapan origin.

That would give the first trilogy (ending with volume 5) a central villain, while keeping Nova for the next run.
That would leave us with 1 origin and fight movie, one motorball movie and one action sequence + tying up loose ends ending movie.



Or... compressing most of the volumes 1 and 2 into the first half of the movie 1, second half being the motorball arc's beginning.
Making second movie out of motorball conclusion and Nova's intro.
And... having the third movie made out of later parts of volumes 7,8 and 9 while doing volume 6 and parts of 7 (the Tuned Agent arc) as an animated movie like Gotham Knight or Animatrix.


Personally... I'd rather have the it end at volume 5 than have the entire story jammed into three 2-2.5 hour movies and maybe an animated one or two.

[denzacar]

Actually, V for Vendetta is already a perfect storyboard (as it happened with 300 and Sin City), but the cynical brothers believed themselves to be more creative than the original creator. The result was profanation, not art.

Not really...


V4V is a much deeper and much more difficult to transfer to the screen story than Miller's work.
Miller does storyboards and catch phrases.
Moor writes books in dialog alone, not to mention the setting and the hidden details.

You can't just jump in the middle of Watchmen or V4V and start reading - you need the backstory and character relations and development.
With Miller its the other way around.
Characters are archetypes and cliches who speak in 2-syllable words and catch phrases.


Now... as for WB... where they kept to the scenes in the comic and lines characters speak - it was good.
But once they started to adapt the story to make it more filmable and more appealing to general audience - they fucked up.
They made a Joker (a guy who just wants to see the world burn) into a Batman (a guy who fights injustice).

Now... did they fuck up because they didn't understand the story or just to conform to the standards and the audience... that is another matter.



Thing is... deeper the original story and characters, the more there is to fuck up and the more it stands out.

[Sergio Nova]

Now... did they fuck up because they didn't understand the story or just to conform to the standards and the audience... that is another matter.


Thing is... deeper the original story and characters, the more there is to fuck up and the more it stands out.

I have to admit: you know how to summarize the point.

[Sergio Nova]

99% of characters are cyborgs.

I must disagree here.
Let's see: Daisuke, Hugo, Shumira, Kaos, Nova e Koyomi.
I am quoting by memory, so I'm probably forgetting someone.
Zapan, Gonzu and Alita herself are cyborgs, but they have specific faces.

In short, the problem remains.

[Lacaud]

I vote denzacar direct the movie

[vilma21]

I vote denzacar direct the movie

yeah i agree denzacar is a master mind lol