So...Is this the end of the Viz era for Last Order?

[kamugin]

maybe I should make a custom Gally Nendoroid...

And desecrate Gally like this? No Way (I'm kidding)

You guys have to remember that Alita's puppet interface made to interact with Lou was much alike a nendoroid (later Sechs' provisory body also).

[moooV]

. And lf you end up living in one one of them? How about Kowloon?

Are you living in a favela?

Indeed a "hard work" I see

It's a really hard work. If you think that a web development is just writing scripts for sites - you're wrong. I'm solving a very complicated issues with server optimizations, cluster balancing and synchronization, failovers, distributed/cloud computations and lots of stuff you have never even heard of. It's not trivial at all - some issues take weeks or months to figure them out.

That's why I need to switch attention from time to time - it's easy to go mad like this.

Also, I come home completely fucked - I'm working 6 days a week for 12-14 hours a day, but the norms established by the law are 8 hours and 5 days. However, I can't complain since I'm working unofficially.

Are you an ex KGB?!

It has always been written in my profile. And why ex? There are no ex there - the only way out is into the grave.

That was a joke, clearly. I have nothing to do with them.

So why do you keep asking dumb questions??

Because you derive them from a dumb logic.

[kamugin]

You're fucking awesome moooV...

[Abaddon]

Planeta de Agostini is doing a great work translating Last Order; the books are in big format: 15x21 cm., they translate directly from Japanish to Spanish and Gally is Gally (no Alita), Salem is Salem. The only problem is the mirrored pages, but a liked more the Planeta version that the one by VIZ.

The spanish edition of Planeta de Agostini has a good book design and have a lot of quality that's true, also most of the names remains intact from the japanese counterpart (there was a few changes, but I don't remember them now) but damn, why they have to mirrored the pages? that's lazy and retarded, they could just to rearange the panels (like Blade of the Immortal) to read the book from left to right and it will be fine, I understand that they want to maintain the same format of the previous HFV (And God, the first edition is guano in industrial quantities... easily the worst version of Gunnm) but I find it really really lazy.

[Sergio Nova]

they could just to rearange the panels (like Blade of the Immortal) to read the book from left to right and it will be fine.

Yes! THAT would be the most intelligent solution to the reading process, but the editors are sup´posed to work. It seems publisher all around the world either mirror or leave it as it is, but they do NOT want to work hard.

[Abaddon]

The funniest part of this is we are on the year 2011 and they are still doing it, I mean in the 90s wasn't habitual to read a book from right to left so it was fine. My first manga was a mirrored one but I never knew it until the "rise" of internet, that's why I think is a complete nonsense to mirror a manga nowadays... readers have become habitual to the Japanese reading style a long time ago. Like I said, if they want to publish a book with the occidental reading standarts they could just rearrange the panels to make the drawings look less crappy.

[DDTL]

they could just to rearange the panels (like Blade of the Immortal) to read the book from left to right and it will be fine.

Yes! THAT would be the most intelligent solution to the reading process, but the editors are sup´posed to work. It seems publisher all around the world either mirror or leave it as it is, but they do NOT want to work hard.

Reminds me of the french edition of Eden... The whole manga is mirrored, but in few volumes and for no apparent reason, some frames (of course always during fight scenes) aren't ! One character loses his left arm, but in the next picture the left arm is back and the right arm missing... Lot of stuff like that. Add to this some lousy french translation (there is a picture of a big VIRUS and the characters exclaim : "Oh, a BACTERIA !", pretty irritating when you are studying molecular biology and virology...), and you end up with a quite... funny experience.

[Sergio Nova]

Reminds me of the french edition of Eden... The whole manga is mirrored, but in few volumes and for no apparent reason, some frames (of course always during fight scenes) aren't ! One character loses his left arm, but in the next picture the left arm is back and the right arm missing... Lot of stuff like that. Add to this some lousy french translation (there is a picture of a big VIRUS and the characters exclaim : "Oh, a BACTERIA !", pretty irritating when you are studying molecular biology and virology...), and you end up with a quite... funny experience.

Partially mirrored and partially rearranged sounds simply ridiculous, as it is the worst result. Actually, a title like EDEN, drawn always in rectangles, would be perfect for rearranging. As to lousy translations, it seems publisher are not so worried. They do not want to pay too much, so they have a level of translations equivalent to the level of payment. Translators, on the other hand, either are not interested in mangas or are not much intelligent, as they could check the solutions found in sites like Mina no Manga and Ripper's anime. Or do I want too much? It seems to moooV is right.

[HumanRage]

you are right sergio, it is this world that isn't...

common sense is a superpower nowadays

[MonolitH]

@ The Panel switching Faction:
I think you're forgetting a slight problem with this idea...
What's going to happen to Speechbubbles if you just move the Panels but don't mirror them? They'll still be aligned the Japanese way like that which will leave you with Western Panels but Japanese Speechbubbles. >__<

And what about panels that intersect into each other? Even if the Author keeps them usually boxed the moment he does something like that you're pretty much screwed as you HAVE to mirror the entire Page which gets even worse if there's something asymmetrically going on ( chopped of Limbs, clothing, signs, etc... )

Personally I prefer to stay as true to the original as possible ( right-to-left when reading Mangas and original DUB with Subtitles where needed in Animes ) as some jokes/gags just don't work out otherwise.

@ moooV:

Unless there are folks here or who read this forum who don't have a single tankobon or TPB of the series at all.

Exactly. One of them is myself - I don't have any of gunnm/any other manga|anime stuff, but I'm still a huge fan of gunnm.

A fan? You call yourself a fan by not financially supporting the Author for a medium available in a language you understand?
Don't be ridiculous... You're a bloody thief.

I don't have them, because I find that inconvenient.
Forestating the upcoming question I'll answer that I prefer e-books/PDFs and I read a lot.

I can assure you that no Author will give a shit about such a laughable reason - You read it, you buy it.

Also, I'd rather donate to an author directly than buy useless stuff and books for collecting dust on a bookshelf.

If that's the sole reason you could still go and buy them right now BUT leave them at the store with a comment like:
"Please keep the Books. I prefer to read eBooks which are not available from this Author but I still want to give him proper support!"

And if you believe them to keep the money just because you left the books on their table you could take them with you and throw em away at the next bin you pass by.

Calling himself a fan...

[kamugin]

Add to this some lousy french translation (there is a picture of a big VIRUS and the characters exclaim : "Oh, a BACTERIA !", pretty irritating when you are studying molecular biology and virology...), and you end up with a quite... funny experience.

I want to kill someone when I see these kind of crude errors! Not only in France, US or here, Pindorama, this happens all over the world, so it seems. The publishers are hiring lousy translators aiming to reduce the final cost of an edition. I remember one of the first volumes of Evangelion published here. There was a panel showing a large amount of ships, and in a dialog box it was written: "The Pacific troop...". The imbecile that wrote that didn't knew that "troop" (tropa in Portuguese) is the collective form of "soldier" (soldado), not warships! He could have choose "frota" (fleet in English), "armada" (it's the same word in English) or "esquadra" (the same as fleet). But the moron choose to wite "a tropa do Pacífico..."! With this we see that, besides lousy translators, there are also lousy revisors (IF some is hired at all) and lousy adaptators!

[Sergio Nova]

@ The Panel switching Faction:
I think you're forgetting a slight problem with this idea...
What's going to happen to Speechbubbles if you just move the Panels but don't mirror them? They'll still be aligned the Japanese way like that which will leave you with Western Panels but Japanese Speechbubbles. >__<

The example I was referring to is Eden. As I said, that is a perfect case for rearranging.
As to the bubbles, the original editor can send the work without them, simply. That was done, for example, when Fist Comics published Akira in the USA. The Americans mirrored the manga, but opted for positioning the bubbles in a more adequate way to an alphabetical language. It makes sense, as I have already seem enormous bubbles with one single word. In short, Kodansha sent the nude pages.

[moooV]

A fan? You call yourself a fan by not financially supporting the Author for a medium available in a language you understand?
Don't be ridiculous... You're a bloody thief.

By your logic everyone, who has downloaded it, is a thief. Then, why isn't this site closed yet? It's a hotbed of criminals!
Theft removes the original, but piracy makes a copy. Piracy is not a theft, since the original stays in place intact.

Don't be hypocritical - you are downloading and using software, just like everyone else. It's perfectly normal - there are companies to pay for it. However, even they would use pirated software, if they aren't checked.

And you've bought photoshop. Yes. And windows. Don't make me laugh.

I can assure you that no Author will give a shit about such a laughable reason - You read it, you buy it.

Media corporations think the same. You watch the movie - you buy it. And nobody buys it.

If they had a good and convenient digital distribution system, their gross would increase many times, since nobody buys their production on physical mediums, because of it's inconvenience - why should I go to the shop and have inconvenience with CDs/DVDs/Blu-Rays later, when I can download it and watch it right now?

If that's the sole reason you could still go and buy them right now BUT leave them at the store with a comment like:
"Please keep the Books. I prefer to read eBooks which are not available from this Author but I still want to give him proper support!"

And if you believe them to keep the money just because you left the books on their table you could take them with you and throw em away at the next bin you pass by.

Have you ever seen anyone, who did that? Don't be ridiculous.

Also, you aren't supporting the author - you're supporting the fat publisher. Author gets less than 10% of the book cost (if it's an original, so he will get waaaay less from a translated book), so what's the point?

[kamugin]

By your logic everyone, who has downloaded it, is a thief. Then, why isn't this site closed yet? It's a hotbed of criminals!
Theft removes the original, but piracy makes a copy. Piracy is not a theft, since the original stays in place intact.

Don't be hypocritical - you are downloading and using software, just like everyone else. It's perfectly normal - there are companies to pay for it. However, even they would use pirated software, if they aren't checked.

And you've bought photoshop. Yes. And windows. Don't make me laugh.

I'm a thief because everybody else is! Is that your reasoning, isn't it? Please do not impose your "common sense" to other people. Everybody may have stole something, or many things, along his life. However this doesn't make theft a legal pratice. No law court will accept that as an excuse.

Here we are talking about supporting our favourite author and his manga, something that you don't do! Not about if mine, or someone else's, copy of Windows is pirated.

[MonolitH]

@ Sergio Nova:
Okay, I thought you guys were talking about Mangas in general including BAA.
Didn't know Authors can send their work without bubbles... I always expected them to take these into consideration when doing their artwork.

@ moooV:
You're totally missing the entire fuckin Point of my comment! If it just were about you not buying his books I wouldn't have bothered as I've gotten used to this behaviour happening around me.
But you just had the nerve to open your mouth and barf at others why they're worried about the release of books if they just can steal it.
And then you even called yourself a Fan but in the same sentence you claim you have stolen his money by not buying just one copy of his work you read.

By your logic everyone, who has downloaded it, is a thief.

Beeing a Thief or not depends on the context of it's situation:
I can't consider someone a thief if he reads a Scanlation which has never been officially released in a language he can read as he'd never have bought it anyway without the work of the Scanlators.
This though does not apply to you - You can abviously read this boards language of which there is an official translation available yet you refuse to buy it.

Then, why isn't this site closed yet? It's a hotbed of criminals!

Hold on a second! Reading a scanlation does not make you a criminal if you buy the book once it's officially been released which I have strong believes all FANs ( except you ) will do once it has been released in their language.
Some might even go with other languages if their native one is not supported - We're just impatient on this matter.

Theft removes the original, but piracy makes a copy. Piracy is not a theft, since the original stays in place intact.

Don't get me with that Piracy bullshit. What you're reading is not even available as a Pirateable medium without Scanlations.

Don't be hypocritical - you are downloading and using software, just like everyone else.

I don't call myself a saint on this matter but in the recent time I began to buy everything I considered "free" in the past or use offers like THIS.

It's perfectly normal - there are companies to pay for it. However, even they would use pirated software, if they aren't checked.

It's not normal - This sentence alone makes me wonder about my efforts in commenting all this.

And you've bought photoshop. Yes. And windows.

I did.

Don't make me laugh.

Please start doing so.

Media corporations think the same. You watch the movie - you buy it. And nobody buys it.

Don't take yourself as a measurement - I feel offended beeing measured by a "Fan" like you.

If they had a good and convenient digital distribution system, their gross would increase many times, since nobody buys their production on physical mediums, because of it's inconvenience - why should I go to the shop and have inconvenience with CDs/DVDs/Blu-Rays later, when I can download it and watch it right now?

It's like I mentioned in my first post - Buy it, rip it, throw it away if it's THAT inconvenient for you to keep em in a beautiful Shelf.
I do that myself to keep all files on my HDD's for quick and easy access with the exception of me not beeing THAT annoyed about them so I keep the originals to set on some dust.

Have you ever seen anyone, who did that? Don't be ridiculous.

No I haven't as the books I read rarely get new releases ( ever heard of the Battle Angel Alita Books? ) and I'm usually in a hurry when I enter the local ComixShop leaving almost no opportunity to listen about such an AWESOME person.

Don't be ridiculous.

I believe I'm not the person which started with such a ridiculous argument to not buy a book.
I just offered an idea to redeem yourself In an interesting way - Don't forget a camera for the look on the salespersons face.

Also, you aren't supporting the author - you're supporting the fat publisher. Author gets less than 10% of the book cost (if it's an original, so he will get waaaay less from a translated book), so what's the point?

Still I support him, unlike you.

[Aksi]

I can't consider someone a thief if he reads a Scanlation which has never been officially released in a language he can read as he'd never have bought it anyway without the work of the Scanlators.
This though does not apply to you - You can abviously read this boards language of which there is an official translation available yet you refuse to buy it.

Well, it is rather difficult to order Alita's manga from Russia (considering fees, time delays, lack of information, quality of post service here, etc). If one is not prepared to face all obstacles to pay 9$ to publisher and 1$ to the author - well, it is one's decision. I believe you are judging moooV not knowing all circumstances. This may be a situation of "too much effort - little or no gain" from his point of view, and moooV is free to form his point of view as he pleases

moooV wrote:
And you've bought photoshop. Yes. And windows.

I did.

moooV wrote:
Don't make me laugh.

Please start doing so.

Ok, the differences between the countries have never been illustrated more colourfully. Don't know about you, guys, but I laughed

[HumanRage]

i don't remember the last time i genuinelly bought something that could be copied.

not in this century i think

[moooV]

i don't remember the last time i genuinelly bought something that could be copied.

not in this century i think

Throughout the course of my life I have never ever personally met anyone, who has bought legal software or movies/music.

Moreover, I've worked in several companies (small and semi-big) - all the soft they've used was illegal, simply because it's MUCH CHEAPER for a company to bribe an inspector/commission (in fact, inspector usually demands a bribe himself - "I will mark your company clean and won't check it if you'll pay me and we'll be friends") than to buy the software.

That's why I've said that:

It's perfectly normal - there are companies to pay for it. However, even they would use pirated software, if they aren't checked.

Because it IS perfectly normal. If the company isn't checked, why should it buy legal software?

[HumanRage]

yeah but russia is not the real world you know ? actually, it's the legal part that is corrupting the country, lawfulness is a minority compared to corruptness

[kamugin]

yeah but russia is not the real world you know ?

When I started in my current work (Pindorama's Air Force), about 13 years ago, there was many computers using pirated copies of Windows 95 and 98. When they changed the OS to Windows XP, all the computers now have a legal corporative licence. Our Petrobras (our state owned petrol and gasoline company) also use licenced OS, as one insider told me once. The anti-virus and MS Office are both legal in Air Force too. So even here in Pindorama the State try to follow the rules. The pirated software present in government owned computers are installed by the users themselves... Also the virus and trojans too.

[HumanRage]

donno if proper topic, but new covers for HFV reedition
ok

[AR-99]

The reprint is called the Gunnm: New Edition, discussed here: http://www.rippersanime.com/Forum/viewt ... ?f=5&t=650.