GLO 104

[kamugin]

The damage Sechs took when Zekka hit him seriously for the first time back in chapter... whatever... was something like the effect Kenshirou's (Hokuto no Ken) punches have. Zekka just forgot to say "You just have ten (seconds or chapters?) more of life!"

Seriously, this thing is deserving to be moved to Shonen Jump by now

Luckily I have other interesting mangas to take the place of GLO as my favourite manga.

[Gatekpr]

The damage Sechs took when Zekka hit him seriously for the first time back in chapter... whatever... was something like the effect Kenshirou's (Hokuto no Ken) punches have. Zekka just forgot to say "You just have ten (seconds or chapters?) more of life!"

Seriously, this thing is deserving to be moved to Shonen Jump by now

Luckily I have other interesting mangas to take the place of GLO as my favourite manga.

What it looks like to me is that Sechs is inexperienced with the use of supersonic plasma gel, which is now bursting from unstable parts of his body (his mechanical eye thing, the area where Zekka punched him, etc.).

[othergrunty]

The damage Sechs took when Zekka hit him seriously for the first time back in chapter... whatever... was something like the effect Kenshirou's (Hokuto no Ken) punches have. Zekka just forgot to say "You just have ten (seconds or chapters?) more of life!"

Seriously, this thing is deserving to be moved to Shonen Jump by now

I think it was more simliar to the shockwave attacks (Haertza Haeon, etc.) Panzer Kunst users have developed. Remember Gilda herself taught Gally a technique in which you create a shockwave in the enemy which bounce around until you trigger their release. Have you forgotten that weird cyborg martial arts is a stable part of this series since the beginning of it? Would you have allready quit it after seeing how Gally could make peoples head explode just by touching them with her palm?

Though considering the cracks in the punching area i think the implication is more that Zekkas concentrated punch produced so much heat from the speed that the material at the area there has become more hardened. Simliar to how he melted glass bottles and someones head with a very quick strike several issues ago.
This would also be a good explanation on why the fist shape actualy stuck on the body, rather than mold back into it's original state.

Hardening materials also makes them more easy to break. So when Sechs kept using the body like that the hardened part was stretched so often that the material ripped. So now that the bodies hull has been breached so violently the cracks move along their lines all over the body

Also possible that the strain from the punch simply put a lot of fatique on the material in general simliar to how a rubber band will rip after you stretched it too often.

Either way, the only thing which can't really be explained in universe is why the crack on the hardened area took exactly that long to open. Which is simply dramatic tension on the authors part.

[gilsand]

I know many questioned the reality/possibility of the impact of the punches shown in Gunnm.

Although I am not an expert, I do have several years of hand to hand combat training.
I am a retired Sergeant First Class (three with a rocker), who was part of what used to be called a Paratroop RRF (rapid response force).

In one punch, you are taught to observe breathing and Heart rhythm, and to sync your punch so that you shock the heart muscle and cause it to stop beating.

The Dim Mak- does exist. This strike is at a certain part of the chest that you are taught to strike in a open palm (Shodou) break this bone which will cause a cut to the liver and the person will slowly die from painless internal bleeding. About a day to two days later.

The arm swing and breathing that Figure Four uses to get energy is also factual. The breathing is also taught so that you prevent yourself from going into shock when you are seriously injured, and in cold weather you can actually maintain a steady body temp.
There were 14 Silent/Quick Kill methods taught, and the most interesting part was to sneak and kill without disturbing the Aura of your target.

I think the way Kishiro has taken and logically thought out what could happen in the world of Space Karate is part of what hooked me on this Manga.

[Sergio Nova]

Remember Gilda herself taught Gally a technique in which you create a shockwave in the enemy which bounce around until you trigger their release. Have you forgotten that weird cyborg martial arts is a stable part of this series since the beginning of it?

I agree with you entirely. I also agree that there never was a woman like Gilda, but Yukito's character is Gerda!

[othergrunty]

Remember Gilda herself taught Gally a technique in which you create a shockwave in the enemy which bounce around until you trigger their release. Have you forgotten that weird cyborg martial arts is a stable part of this series since the beginning of it?

I agree with you entirely. I also agree that there never was a woman like Gilda, but Yukito's character is Gerda!

Ups, my bad. Somehow i must have confused her name. Can happen.

[Sergio Nova]

there never was a woman like Gilda

The ones unable to understand the reference should google the text, simply.

[othergrunty]

there never was a woman like Gilda

The ones unable to understand the reference should google the text, simply.

... *clap clap clap* Well played.

[kamugin]

My comparison was actually a joke... I'm always making some joke guys, you shoud have noticed by now.

Gilsand did a remarkable explanation about martial arts, however I fail to see how it can be related to the Zekka vs. Sechs match, since they are cyborgs/androids.

I go with Gatekpr hypothesis.

[HumanRage]

sergio, we all come from a separate continent here... heh pretty much. i think our only common cultural reference is gunnm

that's why your wordplays fall short i think

hell, some people here discovered the whole "Mad Max" thing because we talked about it, so classic cinema references will not work either

[Sergio Nova]

hell, some people here discovered the whole "Mad Max" thing because we talked about it, so classic cinema references will not work either

Well, I made a joke and, later, I realized it would make no sense to many friends here.

[gilsand]

Re: GLO 104

Thu May 12, 2011 11:20 pm
Gilsand did a remarkable explanation about martial arts, however I fail to see how it can be related to the Zekka vs. Sechs match, since they are cyborgs/androids.

Good Question!
All their Bodies have the same basic flaw.

The design is still basic human in nature.

Spoiler:

http://www.rippersanime.com/Wiki/tiki-i ... age=Qin-na
They show energy blast and such, but those are also things you are taught to "image" in your mind to concentrate your Chi when you punch.
There are other comparisons, but you get the idea.

I hope.

hell, some people here discovered the whole "Mad Max" thing because we talked about it, so classic cinema references will not work either

Well, I made a joke and, later, I realized it would make no sense to many friends here.

OK Sergio, your joke is funny now

[kamugin]

The design is still basic human in nature.

You're partially right. Indeed I forgot their bodies are alike human bodies even inside. We can see Alita's "making of a cyborg" in GLO #1. However the Fizziroy body is much different internally, as we can see in phase #86, page 10. I doubt cyborgs like Alita can die from something like a stopped heart or internal bleeding. Her body should have some fail safe mechanisms to prevent those obvious flaws, an internal defibrillator for example. A good designer or engineer would have anticipated that. Stressed arm joints aren't the same kind of damage.

[gilsand]

The design is still basic human in nature.

You're partially right. Indeed I forgot their bodies are alike human bodies even inside. We can see Alita's "making of a cyborg" in GLO #1. However the Fizziroy body is much different internally, as we can see in phase #86, page 10. I doubt cyborgs like Alita can die from something like a stopped heart or internal bleeding. Her body should have some fail safe mechanisms to prevent those obvious flaws, an internal defibrillator for example. A good designer or engineer would have anticipated that. Stressed arm joints aren't the same kind of damage.

Sure, I can agree on that also

[Isidorios]

It's not implausible for a cyborg to die from a stopped heart. In fact, Alita "kills" Jashugan at the end of the motorball arc by disabling his heart with a direct blow to it.
Cyborgs, like normal humans, have electrical signals coursing through their bodies, with circuitry replacing neural pathways. They are likely very similar, since the brain and organic spine are directly connected to them.
Caerula's martial awareness is elevated enough to predict an opponent's moves by reading the neural flow, but even Alita is able to sense and distinguish electrical flow as early as her confrontation with Desty Nova in his hidden bunker. The captain of the Stellar Nursery Society uses a lot of "nerve strikes" in her battle with both Sechs and the Bunnies, despite being unfamiliar with the design of either cyborg body, so I think we can assume that most really advanced warriors have a means of ascertaining the basic layout of an opponents circulatory and nervous systems.

So it's hardly surprising that Dim Mak and the like prove effective, even at disabling systems with automatic backups.

[kamugin]

It's not implausible for a cyborg to die from a stopped heart. In fact, Alita "kills" Jashugan at the end of the motorball arc by disabling his heart with a direct blow to it.
Cyborgs, like normal humans, have electrical signals coursing through their bodies, with circuitry replacing neural pathways. They are likely very similar, since the brain and organic spine are directly connected to them.
Caerula's martial awareness is elevated enough to predict an opponent's moves by reading the neural flow, but even Alita is able to sense and distinguish electrical flow as early as her confrontation with Desty Nova in his hidden bunker. The captain of the Stellar Nursery Society uses a lot of "nerve strikes" in her battle with both Sechs and the Bunnies, despite being unfamiliar with the design of either cyborg body, so I think we can assume that most really advanced warriors have a means of ascertaining the basic layout of an opponents circulatory and nervous systems.

So it's hardly surprising that Dim Mak and the like prove effective, even at disabling systems with automatic backups.

Of course if a cyborg heart is crushed beyond repair it will die. However cyborgs would be a product of engineering, so why not provide them a backup heart? Remember when the beheaded Nova showing his freak belly head says: "Always backup vital systems, my dear!"? If, for example, actual aircrafts have three hydraulic and electric redundant systems, how an engineer skilled enough to design a cyborg would neglect such basics?

Right now I finished rereading GLO #5 and #6 (mainly to see again the epic combat between Alita and Caerula). Indeed Elf and Zwölf were disabled quite easily by a strike to their spinal column and I think this was an inconsistency. While it woud be impossibe to make a cyborg with more than one column (if we want to preserve the human resemblance), it could be extra reinforced and also the neural pathways inside it. When Qu Tsang fights Sechs, she strikes him in almost every weak point of a human body, but it has little effect. She says: "What's this kid's body is made of!? It is like I'm hitting rubber!". The bunnies' bodies are weak but Sechs' body is very sturdy? This is the only thing we can deduce.

[Gatekpr]

Keep in mind that Elf and Zwolf were using TUNED bodies at the time, otherwise known as "Soft Machine" bodies. They seem to be made to be like human bodies in terms of consistency and form, so it's no surprise that a strike to the central nervous system common to humans would have a similar effect on them.

[gilsand]

It's not implausible for a cyborg to die from a stopped heart. In fact, Alita "kills" Jashugan at the end of the motorball arc by disabling his heart with a direct blow to it.
Cyborgs, like normal humans, have electrical signals coursing through their bodies, with circuitry replacing neural pathways. They are likely very similar, since the brain and organic spine are directly connected to them.
Caerula's martial awareness is elevated enough to predict an opponent's moves by reading the neural flow, but even Alita is able to sense and distinguish electrical flow as early as her confrontation with Desty Nova in his hidden bunker. The captain of the Stellar Nursery Society uses a lot of "nerve strikes" in her battle with both Sechs and the Bunnies, despite being unfamiliar with the design of either cyborg body, so I think we can assume that most really advanced warriors have a means of ascertaining the basic layout of an opponents circulatory and nervous systems.

So it's hardly surprising that Dim Mak and the like prove effective, even at disabling systems with automatic backups.

This is a good discussion, but I think That you miss the level of Combat that is going to be presented to you.
Realize that Galley too still has the flaw of being human. STILL!
She depends on the wormhole connection for her energy.
Zeka and Sechs still depend on batteries and must recharge as depicted when Sechs was fighting Tunguska.
Now I will share something that was taught to me, in a simple form, but I think you will all grasp the concept.
Real combat is not fought in the physical realm of existence, but in the spiritual world.
Look at these pictures.

Spoiler:

Just thinking about it makes your adrenalin flow and your heart beat faster!


Now what was the point I was trying to make?


OK guys. Back in your court.

[bhaal]

Of course if a cyborg heart is crushed beyond repair it will die. However cyborgs would be a product of engineering, so why not provide them a backup heart? Remember when the beheaded Nova showing his freak belly head says: "Always backup vital systems, my dear!"? If, for example, actual aircrafts have three hydraulic and electric redundant systems, how an engineer skilled enough to design a cyborg would neglect such basics?

Basics from GUNNM:

Spoiler:

[kamugin]

Basics from GUNNM:

I have said it before, but I'll say it again since the context is propitious: what Yukito don't know, in detriment of all his knowledge, (and many many other sci-fi authors) is that an human being can't keep his/hers sanity without the sensorial feedback of the skin. Probably there are many other complex dependencies between the brain and the body that would make the dream of a cyborg perhaps an impossible achievement. Bodies that are artificial living machines of highest complexity, like the original berserker body, the tuned agent body, the imaginos body and the Fizziroy body, all made of nanomachines, could perform just like an human body, thus providing to the brain the support it needs to function properly. However the rude robotic bodies that most of BAA and GLO's cyborgs are doted clearly aren't good enough to shelter a healthy brain. Maybe Yukito know about this, however if a sci-fi author tries to keep the scientific consistency always, he would be tied to the extent of being unable to develop a good story... Well, by the other hand, Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan didin't seemed to be constrained when writing their sci-fi books because they keep the scientific coherency.

I propose a classification of Yukito's cyborgs separating those into two categories: "hard cyborgs" and "soft cyborgs" considering what I've conjectured before. I remember that in Shin Cutey Honey her "father" says something like this: "I could have made her skin hard as steel, thus invulnerable to bullets, but if I have done this, she wouldn't be able to feel the pain and the pleasure like an human being." -- Wise choice I can say.

About the sexual POV, well, I've seen some vibrators made of metal, so some women can take pleasure from such devices. However if a male cyborg can get physical pleasure through a crude metal rod is the biggest question. Rakkan is a "hard cyborg" without doubt, so, before knowing he actually have a penis, I conjectured he extravasate his hate (?) towards women only by killing them. He tries to kill Alita promptly when he saw her, not to rape her. When we saw the dismembered bodies of Elf and Zwölf, the pieces are still covered by their bunnie suits. So, to me, he "only" killed them. Don't having an human penis could be part of an explanation of his mental disease. However now we know that he not only have a penis, in addition his artificial member is good enough to satisfy his ex-wife and to conceive a son! So I conclude that Yukito is very incoherent regarding his "cyborgs" features and capabilities.

[litchi master]

We have to keep something in mind this is a basic pattern for the cyborgs in kuzutetsu. And not those from the rest of the solar system.The technological between kuzutetsu and tiphares is huge and and there may also be one, though minor, between tiphares and ketheres(as ketheres uses tipareans as source as brain tank for their knowledge about nano techs for instance)
So it would be logical to find a huge technological gap between the cyborgs from the surface and those from space
more over there may be ways to connect nerves authentic or artificial to the brain to control limbs. remember Alita has nerves, so there may be areas on the body that may be authentic(zapan's face, the deckmen's body parts and the genitalia for instance), which may even be bought on the streets (remember vector?) and other sensitive areas to enable the cyborgs to feel
Alita has taste, cyborgs also seem to feel pain
so it would only be logical that cyborgs in space should be more performing than those of kuzutetsu or even be able to feel more than a regular human being ( Zekka with his faceted fly eyes)
This topic made me think:
Personnaly I had always believed that, once a person was turned into a cyborg they lost the abitlity to have sex and therefore accounted for the high level of violence in Kuzutetsu.


The soft body is something else as it is the most advanced body Tiphares could provide, so it would have a better sensivity than any on kuzutetsu but it was a body built for combat, and I doubt that GIB would have endowed their killing machine with genitalia to have her frolic when off duty...So not even Fogia....doesn't mean they didnt do anything though.

[HumanRage]

zekka said that he moved to a solidstate brain, so it's only the user's choice actually.

note that toji kept his brain.
also, about the diagram, back then there was still no brainchips in the story, but with one, the whole heart/liver/lungs etc is completly useless.

[kamugin]

zekka said that he moved to a solidstate brain, so it's only the user's choice actually.

note that toji kept his brain.
also, about the diagram, back then there was still no brainchips in the story, but with one, the whole heart/liver/lungs etc is completly useless.

Alita was seen eating after she discovered her brain isn't human anymore. Even Sechs was plotted eating! If food is really useless to them, perhaps they eat to feel "human". Something like "I eat, therefore I exist!"

[Sergio Nova]

I must be getting too old. I am unable to find the translation script!

[TargaryenX]

No, I'm the one who's too old to finish it.