Some thoughts on the ZOTT arc

[ChaosConfetti]

Now that the ZOTT arc is over with, I think we can safely conclude that the whole exercise was something his editors put him up to.

Honestly, the plot points, and the whole drawn out arc with lots of superfluous characters: all hallmarks of high popularity, long running shonen manga.

GUNNM is not very popular in Japan. Honestly, it probably only survives due to a hardcore fanbase and revenue from overseas licensing. This leads me to conclude that this very superflous tangent to the story was included in lieu of something more brief simply as a means to try to drawn in a larger crowd of readers. After all, all that really needed to happen for the plot to advance would be for Alita and co to get back to Ketheres with some sort of diversion or means of staying hidden, and then dive the computer core. Everything else was pretty much expendable. Even the mid-season upgrade with the Jovian wormhole reactor, which only really seems to be there to serve as a means to save everyone's bacon when Trinidad inevitably loses his shit at the end of the tournament.

So, I'm thinking that it was something he was more or less roped into. The editorial system is infamously powerful in Japanese manga, and no one really seems to be able to escape it.

[kuroro86]

I always found that the ZOTT tournament was different from the other Chapeters, maybe you are rigth and it was the editors. I also noticed that all manga started slowing down in that period. I think it was a way to cope with the economic crisis. But to be fair I enjoyed the battles especially Zazie VS pervert

[othergrunty]

Did anyone else noticed that tournament arc really only went out of controll after the Vampire Flashback arc?

I mean sure Volume 5 is all about the tournament, but it also serves as introduction to the ZOTT and expands the setting via the introduction of Guntroll and later the Caruela who becomes imensly important later. Volume 6 is still about the tournament but most of that is taken up by finishing the fight between Gally and Caruela and then starting Gally's infiltration. Volume 7 is the same Gally doing what she came for and the Tuneds playing alibi for her.
Then we have the 2 volume Vampire Arc, which while relative tedious at least adds a lot to the universe.

Then we have volume 10 and things get a bit out of hand. First with the introduction of Zekka and the Super Sonic Thumb Wrestling thing. Zekka. Later with Gally becoming her super powerfull and somewhat annoying (suddently she really wants to kill Toji? WTF?) version. Then an entire volume in which the karate Team faces off against he Venus team, which was mostly just to show off Zekka. Finaly the whole thing concludes but takes 2 volumes to do that and introduces us to some space buddist who stolen Kitty Prydes super powers and solves all problems for Gally like a zentastic Deus Ex Machina.

The whole thing could have been concluded in 2 volumes after 9. But no suddently Gally HAD to win the tournament, because god be good if we if a protagonist does not care about winning a tournament.

[kuroro86]

Later with Gally becoming her super powerfull and somewhat annoying (suddently she really wants to kill Toji? WTF?)

I also agree Alita wanting to kill Toji or being rood to him was out of contests and out of character. In a older chapter it seemd they where friends

[Martin]

I disagree.

Guntroll were the product of some fan contest, "create a character" thing. Then all of the different tournament tiers were amazingly different...The Circus people, The nano monster thing...I am glad he kind of went off the rails. I prefer the crazy ways things went over the alternative of some kind of tournament montage against a bunch of forgettable characters. The Venusions were amazing.

The ZOTT is part of Gunnm and has spanned the better part of a decade. More than almost any other creator I have heard of, the stories and publishing schedule seem to confirm that no one tells Yukito what to do. I accept the Zott and the Vampire arc as what Gunnm is.

I am ready for a couple of years of flashbacks tieing up Ido and Figure now as well.

[Olive]

The whole thing could have been concluded in 2 volumes after 9. But no suddently Gally HAD to win the tournament, because god be good if we if a protagonist does not care about winning a tournament.

Well, there's something quite surprizing nobody talsk about: the goal of this tournament turned to be who would take in charge Zalem and the Scrapyard... and for now, we don't have any idea of who would be their future.
Lots of things remains unacomplished, such as Resurrecting Lou... I'm quite sure this mini-arc with Figure and ido will be quite short, and they will discover Gally, like Figure did during the "alternate" end of Alita...

[kuroro86]

The whole thing could have been concluded in 2 volumes after 9. But no suddently Gally HAD to win the tournament, because god be good if we if a protagonist does not care about winning a tournament.

Well, there's something quite surprizing nobody talsk about: the goal of this tournament turned to be who would take in charge Zalem and the Scrapyard... and for now, we don't have any idea of who would be their future.
Lots of things remains unacomplished, such as Resurrecting Lou... I'm quite sure this mini-arc with Figure and ido will be quite short, and they will discover Gally, like Figure did during the "alternate" end of Alita...

I think people ( like me ) didn't ask the questions becose they don't care about those thinks. I think the arc Ido and Figure four will lead to Alita not the one that we have been following but the one in the cube ( the protagonist of Battle angel Alita ). I really wonder where Alita ( the one in the ZOTT ) is and what she is up to.

[Vendigo]

My thoughts exactly. The whole strectched-out ZOTT garbage really seemed like management driven episode, and the whole reader-submitted characters was a perfect indicator Kishiro was NOT in charge of the story.

The plethora of non-consequential characters was pure shonen manga style. The fights between different teams (at times not even involving the main team in any way) did nothing to move the story forward, and weren't interesting in the least.

Most of the plot points that emerged during the ZOTT really didn't have a natural connection to the event. They weren't introduced because of ZOTT, they were introduced in spite of it, and often required a contrived explanation how it tied into sports competition. The only thing plot points introduced during the mind-numbing ZOTT episodes do is prevent me from ripping them off the books and burn them. It's sort of like cherries and cow pies. You can't make cow pie good by putting cherries on it, you just ruin the cherries.

Finally, reasoning by the disagreement over simple rewording of few lines that Kishiro is one not to let outside influence affect his work is false. By altering accepted content, the publisher breached their contract, a legal cause for Kishiro. When reviewing the submitted content the editors have much greater liberty to afffect the content; it's fully up to them whether to accept the work or not. The gag manga in Vol 4 had a great indicator; the editor didn't like the way the fight between Toji and Alita was intervened by Zazie, and YK had to justify and explain the hell out of the decision to have it accepted - you really shouldn't need to do that if you were an unquestioned Author of your story, should you? Had Kishiro terminated the contract by refusing to submit work acceptable to the editors, his status in the legal proceedings would've been far, far weaker. Indeed, it seems the dispute over the rewording was Kishiro's way of escaping the situation with upper hand.

I'm glad that the ZOTT is finally over, but all the people I know (in person) who enjoyed Gunnm gave up on Last Order years ago. If there's one good thing about the whole deal, the motorball sure doesn't look like such a low point in the story anymore.

[othergrunty]

The problem is that the damage is done and we won't get the last 7 years wasted on the tournament scenes back. Now all we remaining readers can do is keep on reading and hope for some proper stuff again.

PS: I total forgot about that joke at the end of volume 4. Yep that seems to be a good indicator of what was going on behind the production of the manga.

Though i wonder if the slower pace of the Figure Four arc is an indicator on what the new magazine allows Kishiro to do?

[Eriorguez]

The conclusion of the ZOTT IS quite good, but from a storytelling standpoint. Trinidad's fight to keep the Status Quo ended up with a decapitated Ladder, a closer to the ground Tiphares, and the inhabitants of Earth more aware of their reality. It took its sweet time, but the underlying development was nicely executed.

[Vendigo]

The end of volume 4 might give even more insight to the workings behind the scene; Alita's inner monologue before the ZOTT was like this:

"Aspire to reach heights I was unable to attain..."
I'm not sure this is what Jashugan had in mind.
Gelda gave me her fighting spirit.
Jashugan taught me the value of pride.
Den showed me never to blindly follow.
I shall stand on the shoulders of these giants... And become even stronger.
I will stride into worlds unknown! And...
...one day...
...I will go to Mars!
But first... The Z.O.T. Tournament!

After years with very little progress happening with ZOTT, I began reading it as Kishiro's covert lament over decisions done against his wishes and beyond his powers.

Edit: and now after seeing how the deal with Shueisha was dealt with, it's even prophetic.

[lemnear]

I'm just so glad the ZOTT arc is over! If it weren't for this site I probably would have stopped reading Last Order many years ago.

The current flashback arc with Figure, Ido, and Sechs is such a treat, even without translations for the latest phases. Hopefully the plot can pick back up now and we can finally get a payoff on the Lou arc and maybe even some answers about the mysterious Frau X...

[Kaos/Den_Jack/Tyler]

I just hope Yukito Kishiro knows how important his characters and works are to a great many people, even if not a great number of natives to his home country.

While I am of the opinion that the ZOTT arc has been idiotic and juvenile compared to the preceding work, I think there were some good characters created. For instance, I'm almost sorry that Mbadi met his end within that awful arc, I felt he hadn't met his potential as a villain yet and could have done some things well in another storyline/context.

Lets just say that, if its true that Yukito did have to mangle his universe due to stresses in this one, I would nonetheless remain staunchly supportive of Gunnm/Alita. The characters, and Kishiro's obvious talent, are too meaningful to dismiss; in this respect, not even the ZOTT's awful "Dragonball Z-izing" of them makes a negative difference.

I hate Dragonball Z.

If he created ZOTT of his own accord, without other pressures, that would certainly be a bit more distressing... but, even if that were the case, I'd remain confident that great work is within his capability. The potential of the world and characters he's created is too extraordinary to dismiss!

I just feel terrible thinking that this guy, whose work has impacted my life so greatly, possibly feeling like no one cares, or worse yet, having financial problems because it's not making enough money! Does he even understand how many people in the west follow his work?

[litchi master]

Well, I am sorry to disappoint but Kishiro indeed created the idea of a tournament of his own accord. If you have read the Gunnm martian memory script you must know that there is already a tournament in there. Although it is in no way as bloated and convoluted as the ZOTT. However the whole thing has the same purpose as in the manga, as it introduces the reader to the geopolitical situation of the solar system with the super powers and their ideologies, the status of Ketheres as well as the misfits (guntroll, the space karateka, anomaly, and starship cult who provide us with insights about what exactly is going on in the solar system).

This tournament was the occasion when all the nations met, it also showed us the hypocrisy the the status quo as well as its dear price, and it gave Alita a wide exposure so that she has become a real celebrity, and the scrapyard has become independent.
Plus many elements that are sure to have consequences later in the plot.

So yes for me it served its purpose as it fed us lots of information in a more or less natural way.
I can understand why it is quite long as the amount of things to explain is big, because the plot is so much deeper than the Gunnm martian memories game. Nevertheless I agree that it has grown out of proportion, the Venusian fight was long and tedious, tun po's appearance may foreshadow something else for the future... but damn does it feel like a convenient deus ex machina.

I too was shocked by Alita's behaviour which indeed was out of character, but not without reason. For us fans the we have been following the Zott for years on end, but for the characters it has only been a few days. So you must remember that she has only recently discovered that her brain is not the real thing. She had to come to terms with the situation, so in the meantime she has been aggressive to everyone not knowing where she stood. And Toji, who had previously defeated her, became the target of her misplaced anger.
I like it as it is quite plausible, but the thing took too damn long!!!!!!

[Vendigo]

While the ZOTT was mentioned as early as in volume 3, there was another big fight going on in Ketheres already; Combat Training. It was supposed to be a big deal and for which there was quite a bit of build-up, with Alita becoming more and more aware of her childhood, Colonel Payne as the sadistic combat school commander and Alita woving trying to make a difference in the Combat Training arena by collecting all the flags (which there were nearly a hundred and which Zazie estimated to take two weeks, much longer than the ZOTT took in-universe). Knowing she probably wouldn't and that it never stopped her before, it was good foreshadowing material for a *massive* plot twist. Weasel got the idea how to break down Unanimous by allowing them to witness a great injustice while watching Alita in the battlefield with juvenile soldier corpses, which sort of seems a bit greater injustice than Trinidad's plan to rob the Team Space Angels from their hard-earned victory.

Then, the entire premise is then promptly shot down by a deus ex machina, in just a few pages they were at the last flag already, and there was a brief fight with Toji, Gavit and Hogan, which was later somewhat reflected in the fight with Toji, Zekka and Rakan, though the latter two characters were far, far more extreme. In an episode named "let me give you an advice".

The amount of work put into Combat Training arc would make it seem that Kishiro wanted to make this the defining battle arc of Ketheres, but were told to get back into line with ZOTT so the company could tap the Shônen fighting manga pool with a less controversial theme. Payne has no role in the actual ZOT tournament (he had a huge one in the CT) and while Alita does have her flashbacks during the ZOTT, they're totally disconnected from the event, where in the CT they were directly by it. They also leap from being a toddler to almost directly into the terrorist actions against Ketheres.

[AR-99]

The Combat Chamber is on Leviathan 1, not on Ketheres. IIRC, Zazie doesn't say that it will take that 2 weeks to capture all 78 flags, but a complete flag capture will stop all fighting for 2 weeks.

[litchi master]

The Combat Chamber is on Leviathan 1, not on Ketheres. IIRC, Zazie doesn't say that it will take that 2 weeks to capture all 78 flags, but a complete flag capture will stop all fighting for 2 weeks.

@ AR-99: Yes indeed.

Weasel got the idea how to break down Unanimous by allowing them to witness a great injustice while watching Alita in the battlefield with juvenile soldier corpses, which sort of seems a bit greater injustice than Trinidad's plan to rob the Team Space Angels from their hard-earned victory.

@vendigo I see your point here, for us it is far more shocking to see children dying than seeing a blatant injustice in a sports match.
However there are several factors to consider: First, having children has been outlawed for 200 hundred years by the ladder, remember in volume 3, the super powers casually talking about exterminating the children protected by the Guntroll and no one in the assembly opposes it. (even the teddy bear says that Venus and Jupiter indiscriminately exterminate martian children through the factions they are backing) In this world children are just seen as pests you have to eliminate to avoid overpopulation.

Secondly: don't forget what the Zott is, it is a war at a minor scale, as it prevents an open conflict between Venus and Jupiter, the finals being a test for their latest weapons. Moreover the victor receives additional territory, so in a way the tournament serves as a way to share the universe between the superpowers.
So there can be no cheating because if that were the case it would trigger a war.

There is also another use for the Zott, that is regulating disorder, as it purges society of its criminals.
Indeed when criminals/ troublemakers make themselves too conspicuous, they soon run out of places to hide. they are hunted by the 3 super powers, (in this case I think we can count the orbital federation as a superpower, though it cannot compete with the other 2, it is part of the ladder), and therefore become persona non grata in the minor asteroids which cannot risk the enmity of the ladder. So their only choice, if they survive long enough is to enter the Zott. As long as it lasts, criminals are protected by the rules of the Zott. moreover they are given an opportunity to make themselves heard by the population at large and a "fair chance" to be pardoned and win a nation for themselves.
The problem stems from the participation of the seed teams, whose extraordinary resources cannot be equalled by private teams that
are inevitably crushed.

There is no need to cheat, Jupiter and venus will eventually purge the solar system of its dregs and continue their show of strength...
until this very instalment. Resorting to cheating, breaks the balance, and questions the legitimacy of the Zott, as it ignores its very foundation of free competition and could therefore trigger a war.
The injustice is blatant as competitors who have fought within the rules are about to be robbed of their victory.
Moreover, when the chairman of the orbital federation emits an objection he is ruthlessly killed for standing up for the rules, making yet another injustice. What is more the blast from the sword of Damocles, is likely to kill all the audience in the process.
And to top it all, all this is done by none other than Aga M'Badi, alleged benevolent leader and saviour of the universe, during a live feed unaltered by "unanimous".

Unsurprisingly, people have been kicked out of apathy.

Now I think that Kishiro wanted us to see how rotten a world Ketheres and the rest of the solar system are, if they condone,or even perpetrate mass child slaughter.

[Vinchester]

I have been following GUNNM for 9 years... and up until now I have never really minded the ZOTT arc, since the author has done a wonderful job at drawing incredible sci-fi battles. Nevertheless the bits I enjoyed the most have always been anything but ZOTT. The Martian War bit, the Vampire arc, and whenever Alita goes "I'm sorting other stuff out brb".

But today after reading the RAW chapter 120, I have come to fully realized how long-winded this series has become. As pointed out by many, compared to pre-LO GUNNM, the story progress extremely slowly and seem burdened by backstories that are not necessarily important to the main plot.

Imagine how cool it would be if there's no ZOTT (or that it's condensed into about half the length it is), and Alita gets to go to Mars right away and finish whatever business she has in the most universe-shattering way possible. There is a war with the neo-nazis going on there! At this pace I don't know if mr. Kishiro will ever manage to wrap this up.

Actually I would mind a lot less if the series is more frequently and consistently updated. In the past 9 years of following Last Order I have discovered and finished many many other great works that challenge the spot for my most favourite manga.