Why Alita must die...

litchi master · Post by **litchi master** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:09 pm

Hi every one, new on this forum and I'd like to know if you' ve also got hypotheses on what may follow the Zott arch.
For me it is clear that for the story to go on Alita has to be (one more time) destroyed.
It seems logical for different reasons, first each destruction announces a spiritual progress for Alita.
Second Alita has become far too powerful, with the wormhole and the Fata Morgana/ computer hacking abilities there is little chance that she could find some one strong enough for her even on Mars.
So what seems most logical is for her to be destroyed, by the sword of damocles, or to hand back the Fata morgana to Caelhula or Melchizedek. What do you think?

moooV · Post by **moooV** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:59 pm

And the story will end. No, thanks.

litchi master · Post by **litchi master** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:14 am

not definitively of course I don't want it to end so soon,
she could be resurrected by Arthur's avatar or the present alita could die and then Brain Alita could come back to life.
This would lead her to questioning herself about the actions of her other self that could be interesting, and it would shake those who thought she had actually died.

Sergio Nova · Post by **Sergio Nova** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:36 am

After the ZOTT is over we will finally know what happened to Erica and Gerda. Probably Figure Four will come after Alita (such a promise still counts) and I think that Nova X will recover Alita's brain, join the recent data from her brainchip, and finally give her a fleshy body, as it was the case in the first version.

About the independence of Tiphares and The Scrapyard… well, in real world, when democracy comes, the revolutionaries many times ask why they fought for that. Believe me! The countries in South America (all of them) changed from dictatorship do democrashit, and obviously Kishiro is not so naïve to say that the world will become a paradise.

litchi master · Post by **litchi master** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:38 am

it seems I was carried away by my love for catch phrases, what I meant was that for the storyline to continue Alita needs to change bodies before she goes to Mars, first because she has become too powerful, no cyborg can be on equal footing with her now, except zekka perhaps.

2nd because each time she changed bodies was synonymous with a spiritual evolution and an important step in the story line, imagine if she had kept the berserker body for the motorball arch basically the story would have ended with the fight against jashugan(No Zapan, no tuned arch, no desty nova and no amnesia for Ido.)
So I think that the sword of Damocles may be a way to bring in the necessary change in bodies.
Or at least she needs to relinquish the fata mogana after the tournament.

litchi master · Post by **litchi master** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:55 am

Sergio wrote:After the ZOTT is over we will finally know what happened to Erica and Gerda. Probably Figure Four will come after Alita (such a promise still counts) and I think that Nova X will recover Alita's brain, join the recent data from her brainchip, and finally give her a fleshy body, as it was the case in the first version.

About the independence of Tiphares and The Scrapyard… well, in real world, when democracy comes, the revolutionaries many times ask why they fought for that. Believe me! The countries in South America (all of them) changed from dictatorship do democrashit, and obviously Kishiro is not so naïve to say that the world will become a paradise.

I agree with you, but I think that it cannot come directly after the ZOTT and a journey to Mars which is mandatory for the story to be complete and to learn more about Erica and Gerda. And as Gunnm fans everyone has been expecting it for years.

So the end won't come before at least fifteen volumes. (this is where the return of Fogia should be to bring closure to the story and a happy ending) though I am not sure whether kishiro will give Alita a flesh body after all he has been trying to prove that it made no difference whether your body or your brain was artificial provided you have a spirit/ soul / personality.

TankTreads · Post by **TankTreads** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:24 pm

It might not be necessary for her to switch bodies in order for her to get a downgrade in power. If the wormhole reactor system cannot function without the original facilities intact, then I suppose they could destroy it and sever the quantum link. Unless, of course, she actually possesses the sum total of the system within her. That would complicate things considerably.

BeastSoulEyes · Post by **BeastSoulEyes** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:30 pm

Guys, don't forget, the Alita we are following right now his NOT the real one

. The real Alita is still in Nova's hand and only God know what he is doing to her right now.

She will die, one way or the other, she is far too powerful to have any interesting story be made around her (and I'm pretty sure Kishiro is starting to regret the power gap he has just crossed with characters like Zekka).

Sergio Nova · Post by **Sergio Nova** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:50 am

Guys, have you already stopped to count how many times Alita has already died?

1. She died when Nova's trap exploded (the final of first series), being resurrected by Desty Nova himself;
2. She died when Super Nova killed her, being resurrected by Melchizedek/Arthur, but remained less than alive until take Tunguska's body.

And I'm not including the more than 200 years while she hibernated until be found by Daisuke.

If she dies again, it will look as if reading X-men, whose characters (as written by Chris Claremont) are always dying and resurrecting. Well, I would never consider Claremont a first level writer, anyway, but we are not talking about Claremont here.

BeastSoulEyes · Post by **BeastSoulEyes** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:18 am

Sergio wrote:Guys, have you already stopped to count how many times Alita has already died?

1. She died when Nova's trap exploded (the final of first series), being resurrected by Desty Nova himself;
2. She died when Super Nova killed her, being resurrected by Melchizedek/Arthur, but remained less than alive until take Tunguska's body.

Can we really count the one with Super Nova, it was not her after all but a clone, she is as much a clone to the real Alita as Seich is.

And yes, anything X-men related is definitively not first-level writing.

Pucker Up Octopus Lips · Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:45 pm

Is the Fata Morgana really going to do her much good on Mars? It makes scene to me that it would only be useful on Ketheres and within range of Melchizedek.

But still there is that pesky worm hole power core thing.

Also, I feel that with everything said and done. Why not just put Alitas brain back on the surface with a body, flesh or not, and just let her go on her merry way back to Figure 4? She was already happy and on her way back to him. Does she really need the memories from space? It's possible that the rekindling of her memories of Mars was a side effect of having her memories put into a chip to begin with. Who's to say the memories would be as fresh in her flesh brain?

If Alitas brain woke up in space all disembodied, she would be like... "What... the... fuck...?" fallowed by a speedy mental breakdown. XD

I also don't think two Alitas should ever meet. That would just be weird with lots of questions, answers, and explaining. Alitas brain has missed far too much. So unless Nova does a copy and paste of her memories into the brain... who knows if that's even possible, I say let the brain be without the space memories.

In the first ending, Alita fused herself with Tiphares and Ketheres making the flower thing and regenerating her flesh body. So maybe this time the fata morigana will be her link to her brain in the incubator, now THERE'S a way we can get her memories into her brain quick and easy. I'm sure we wont get a flower this time but same idea. Fuse herself with the system, shut it down, make peace, regenerate herself with her flesh brain.

There's a lot of factors I know we still need to close up, ZOT, Mars, Surface, Tiphares, I'm sure theirs more. The brain seems to be my main focus. The Fata Morgana seems useless outside of Ketheres and the wormhole seems useless outside of powering her body. Unless it gives her the ability to shoot huge laser beams or something. She is powerful yes, but TOO powerful? I will have to read more to decide.

Sergio Nova · Post by **Sergio Nova** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:52 pm

BeastSoulEyes wrote: Can we really count the one with Super Nova, it was not her after all but a clone, she is as much a clone to the real Alita as Seich is.

And yes, anything X-men related is definitively not first-level writing.

Reduced to data or not, she is still Alita. The thunds, on the other hand, have many points reproduced, but independent personalities, if I understood well. Otherwise, why would each of them act differently? Elf and Zwölf act like conceited preteens, while Sechs (even before becoming a man) acts like a steam roller.

Anyway, if Alita is going to die again, it would be exactly the brainchipped one, right? That would be a second death.

In short, there is no damsel to be deflowered (if you understand the parallel).

[To say that anything X-men related is bad literature seems an exaggeration to me, but, yes, I do prefer them without Claremont's pen.]

vilma21 · Post by **vilma21** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:55 pm

now wouldent it be somthing if nova reserected alita's brain.. and our alita came face to face with her, they most likly would fight and only one alita can be, the brain one wouldthink she is the real one and deserves to live, bu the clone alita will probly go a little nutty again, and claim she is real too cause she bonded with humans and made human action's...so alita will have to kill herself.. ohh that would be so intense and mind ogleing

Sergio Nova · Post by **Sergio Nova** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:31 pm

vilma21 wrote:now wouldent it be somthing if nova reserected alita's brain.. and our alita came face to face with her, they most likly would fight and only one alita can be, the brain one wouldthink she is the real one and deserves to live, bu the clone alita will probly go a little nutty again, and claim she is real too cause she bonded with humans and made human action's...so alita will have to kill herself.. ohh that would be so intense and mind ogleing

No way! That would be an absurd.
Besides, the Tunguskan Alita knows perfectly that she is a brainchipped one, so…

An it would be an endless nightmare. I do believe that Kishiro would prefer to be more creative.

litchi master · Post by **litchi master** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:23 am

Well This is still a possibility though, hitherto Kishiro has been broadly following the plot of Gunnm Martian Memory, of course the storyline is deeper and more interesting yet many elements from the "original storyline" remain....

litchi master · Post by **litchi master** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:23 pm

[quote="Pucker Up Octopus Lips"]Is the Fata Morgana really going to do her much good on Mars? It makes scene to me that it would only be useful on Ketheres and within range of Melchizedek.

I must admit that I had not considered the possibility of a "natural downgrade" that would occur if Alita left Jeru. But Up to now Alita's body has been destroyed many times. and each time she has changed bodies she has come back stronger. It was thinking of these "body destructions" and not the actual deaths (which Sergio counted) that the topic came to my mind.

body destruction is actually a repeating pattern in Gunnm :starting with makkaku destroying her first shell, then she abandons the Berserker to start motorball Jashugan leaves her almost destroyed, then she fights Zapan and ends up destroying the Berserker as well as her own body before she 's finally killed by Nova that makes 4 plus her encounter with super nova. Which I count also because though the present Alita is brainchipped she shares the same consciousness as the original Alita. All in al she has had seven bodies which all mark a step in her personnal evolution or that's the way I see it.

Sergio Nova · Post by **Sergio Nova** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:46 pm

litchi master wrote:All in al she has had seven bodies which all mark a step in her personnal evolution or that's the way I see it.

You do make sense.

moooV · Post by **moooV** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:06 pm

Sergio wrote:
litchi master wrote:All in al she has had seven bodies which all mark a step in her personnal evolution or that's the way I see it.
You do make sense.

Totally agree.

------------------------

I think that the best solution for all this would be a fusion of Alita's brainchip and a brain (by Nova, or Melchizedek) in manner Mbadi has. Also, in a new body without this stupid tail, all ridiculous cat-like stuff, and superpower wormhole.

BeastSoulEyes · Post by **BeastSoulEyes** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:11 am

vilma21 wrote:now wouldent it be somthing if nova reserected alita's brain.. and our alita came face to face with her, they most likly would fight and only one alita can be, the brain one wouldthink she is the real one and deserves to live, bu the clone alita will probly go a little nutty again, and claim she is real too cause she bonded with humans and made human action's...so alita will have to kill herself.. ohh that would be so intense and mind ogleing

I'm pretty sure this is what is likely to happen. I agree that Nova made an almost perfect replica of the true Alita in the person of the Alita we are following now, BUT the fact that Alita brain is still there, alive, show that we have two different entities.

Maybe the two will become one at one point of the story, finally giving to Alita all the memories about Mars that her clone has accumulated.

Anyway one thing that I must agree with is the whole thing about evolution through destruction of the body. The Alita we are following now is a product of the will of Alita so can be considered as her (she act with the same motives, the same trauma and memories that the real Alita had so we can see her as a new extension of Alita's will).

d-boy · Post by **d-boy** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:32 am

Maybe author favor with phoenix concept, Alita will get power by reborn after destroyed. Btw i think nova got alita DNA for her remain after he blow her.

litchi master · Post by **litchi master** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:49 pm

Definitely, though not always physically speaking (the body she had against Zapan was definitely her weakest which makes this battle one of the most disputed and desperate because of the hugepower gap between them and one of my favourites too)but psychologically until the Imaginos body I don't think any of her bodies could compare with the berserker.

Concerning the DNA thing it's seems logical indeed but without her brain and memories it woud be useless, just the same problem Alita had concerning Lou. Nova could make a clone of her but the only thing she would have had in common with the original one was her shell.
it was to retrieve lou's partial memories and above all personnality that Alita went to Jeru.
The proof being the story kishiro published starring Ido as a main character before he ever found Alita. It is entitled 4 seasons or something.

(In the case of Zekka and Ygrec the technology used is different AND he had relinquised his BRAIN too, which makes a huge difference. Ygrec could have been fed with Combat data and nothing else. Given that he has no actual memories of Zekka's)

So if nova had Alita's DNA this would be be of no avail to him except to create a flesh Alita but without any memories or knowledge of panzer kunst (but good predispositions and the same instincts for sure).
So he couldn't become himself a Künstler by "absorbing" Alita's DNA or something, moreover this would really be ridiculous.

litchi master · Post by **litchi master** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:51 pm

d-boy wrote: Btw i think nova got alita DNA for her remain after he blow her.

maybe I was a bit too quick reviewing the possibilities opened by your comment, sorry. Indeed Nova could create an Alita clone once he is on Mars as a bait to lure out the kunstlers who have a grudge against Alita.
Or he might make her his lover/ assistant the same way as Eelai was - that would definitely infuriate Alita.
But it would introduce interesting philosophical issues : the importance of environment and education in the spiritual development of the individual. A clone brought up by Nova would be very different, and a perfect illustration of the Karmatron theory.
These thoughts came to my mind when I saw Eelai's first sketches again which looked similar to Alita. And for the lover stuff I remembered that volume 9 in the uruboros Nova showed that he had got to feel something for Alita though in a weird kind of way.
But I admit that it would make one Alita too many.