GLO 87

[Sergio Nova]

I think she is Erika, first because she looks like Yoko but she has blond hair, but if you really think about that, if you good remember, in the first LO volume, Gelda killed all the marsian soldiers who wanted to "play" with the two little girls, Yoko and Erika. Maybe she isn't in the bad guys side but they tried to destruct Melchiezdech!

For the happy ending, you know that a Kunstler wouldn't be killed so easily!

If she is really Erica, she will never be on the bad guys' side, even because she was victimized by the scoundrels when she was a child. Besides, Kishiro's characters have always deserved their names, so Erica is supposed to be powerful as an eagle, but also rich in honor and glory. No, she would never be a Nazi. Obviously, this is my interpretation.

[Dharko]

SHHHH*T!! I need to learn japo

[crazyankan]

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Had nothing to do, so I made the raws into "medium quality"
http://data.fuskbugg.se/skalman01/GLO87MQ.rar
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[crazyankan]

And Hramm(or anybody else), feel free to make the raws HQ =)

[Yuffie]

Ahhhh, very nice to have a new chapter to "read". Too bad the reading is over so fast, and the wait for the next is so long
Nice way to build up some excitement before the finals by showing a bit of Zazie's (turbulent?) past
Even though many probably would have preferred skipping straight to the finals ^^

[Hramm]

And Hramm(or anybody else), feel free to make the raws HQ =)

I still have Raw-84-85-86 to clean before.

[crazyankan]

And Hramm(or anybody else), feel free to make the raws HQ =)

I still have Raw-84-85-86 to clean before.

...and I have phase 81,82,83,84,85 and 86 to typesetting before. So you don't have to hurry

[Hramm]

Too late... ^^
Raw cleaned: http://rapidshare.com/files/211631796/Glo87.rar
Will do 85-86 when translation catchs up...

[ack44]

"Because she's my angel~"

WTF!

[Dharko]

Txs Hramm very good quality !!

[Cailon]

Who is whose angel? Share the context, pleease

This could be a longer flashack again, could it? 4 phases maybe? It cant be too long because Kishiro knows everyone is waiting for ZOTT finals and its end. But then again, Mars ist allright too^^


Lets see, how the relationship between the martian nazis and Panzer Kunst evolves. I fear the worst and all the german terms indicate a strong relationship. Oh my, but lets see the further phases first.

[Dream]

I suppose the flashback will just explain Zazi's current state, but I really don't want it to be more that 2-3 chapters.
Even though I'm glad to see a possible Erika appearance, I still prefer the story when it's centered on Gally. And god knows it's been a while since she got any spotlight.

[Dwakey]

It's Erika, on the bad guy's side, so she can fight against Alita <_> Classic storytelling.

[litchi master]

Lets see, how the relationship between the martian nazis and Panzer Kunst evolves. I fear the worst and all the german terms indicate a strong relationship. Oh my, but lets see the further phases first.

Has any one else considered the possibility that Erica and panzer kunst may have been Nazi from the start?
not because of all the german terms (a society can be German based without being nazi, or so I hope) but of a few hints Kishiro has put inside the story so far. first in vol. 3 we learn that neo nazis were among the 1st to colonize Mars then in vol.9 Tiger Zahuel the originator of panzer Kunst is also said to be among these 1st colons, this taken separately doesn't mean much but now the appearance of Erica during a battle against a neo nazi group besides as Sergio said:

[quote="Sergio
Kishiro's characters have always deserved their names, so Erica is supposed to be powerful as an eagle, but also rich in honor and glory. No, she would never be a Nazi. Obviously, this is my interpretation.[/quote]

Isn't "the eagle thing" a bit too reminiscent of nazism to be just a mere coincidence? I am a afraid it is a strong possibility or at least, it is now, according to what we know the possibility at this stage of the story, which is not much, as Kishiro may have used these element to mislead us.
As I have said in another thread, there is still the possibility that she was recruited by Jupiter secret services to be used as their secret weapon in times of crisis. And her presence here could also be accounted for. As the jovians could have sent Erica to wipe out both the neo nazis and the martian council troups before they send their own troups and seize the space port.
This would avoid direct confrontation, and troubles on the diplomatic ground.

[Cailon]

Not only he term "Panzer Kunst" itself, but more and more terms in this fighting style appeard to be of german origin, yes. But on the other hand, maybe in the beginning the german terms where just a spleen of Kishiro, because even Desty Novas alteration on Jashugans brain is called "Gehirn Umbau", brain alternation. And Nova clearly has nothing to do with Mars, has he? Or Makaku, who is refering to the german philosopher Nietzsche. Or all the other Freudian and Jungian hints. We know Kishiro had to develop the rough story "on the run" at first.

Like in Bleach everyone has spanish names, where I doubt these freaks are from spain. Foreign languages are always interesing because of their foreign sound.


As Sergio wrote in his Glossary, Limeira is a name of jewish origin. Nonetheless she names his bear König, a german term. This could indicate that Mars is a place, where everyone of every origin lives in peace (and dies in peace, as they prefer a natural aging process). And where indeed (the term "König" suggests it) could be a german population which is not nazistic.
Lets see, with which side Alita, Erica and Gerda are, I myself fear the worst but hope for the best.

@ the eagle symbol: You have a point, lets hope you are wrong^^

[Sergio Nova]

@ the eagle symbol: You have a point, lets hope you are wrong^^

He has to be wrong! Kishiro has never seemed to be a fascist, and I have read many of his works. Acqua Knight, for example, can be labelled as naïve (although I disagree), but, decidedly, was not wriiten by a fascist.

[Dharko]

Where they say "Panzer Kuntz is Nazi"???

The first time I saw "Panzer Kunst" and other words, I thought: It´s german, but I never thought: It´s Nazi.

I´ve read a lot and nowhere say that, so, where that idea came out of?

[Sergio Nova]

Where they say "Panzer Kuntz is Nazi"???

The first time I saw "Panzer Kunst" and other words, I thought: It´s german, but I never thought: It´s Nazi.

I´ve read a lot and nowhere say that, so, where that idea came out of?

It seems to me that litchi master is alone here.

[Cailon]

I had that thought, too.
it just these german terms. Of course, not everything that has to do with German is nazi, but now we do have nazis in GLO and nazis speak german (although in many countries they are also active and less restricted than in Germany, like in the USA).
So either we have a multilingual society on mars, including some german terms (I more and more think its that way, like some kind of Europe), or german was brought up there by the nazis alone. If that last thing is the case, then PK was developed by nazis.
But its true, why get all fired up for no confirmed info at the moment...

[ack44]

Who is whose angel? Share the context, pleease

Mouer, the dude that looks like a mouse, tried to stop the missile and jumped in front of it saying "Because she's my angel" ... WTF

[litchi master]

Concerning the nazi thing: I only said that this was a possibility, according to what little knowledge we have now. I don't particularly want Erica or panzer kunst to be nazi. As I used to study WWII as my past time so
I may be a bit quicker to see nazi hints (or quickerto fall
into the author's traps).
However there were nazis on mars from the start, so why not in panzer kunst? if not all, maybe a fringe of its warriors, which may have caused rift among kunstlers.
However this hypothesis may be interesting in terms of story telling: realizing that she belonged to a nazi group may cause a shock to Alita who may then be obliged to act as a cleansing element by wiping out the remaing kunstlers because as a fascist group they represent a danger to the the political stability of Martian government.
as I said in my latest post this interpretation is not based on the use of German terms

not because of all the german terms (a society can be German based without being nazi, or so I hope)

but on the few arguments I have used to buttress my theory, Which I admit is not much.
I only saw the presence of German terms the same way as in Bleach with the espada, that is a way for the author to give his work an exotic touch, a kind of foreign flavour in a highly codified manga production. i did not see it otherwise until recently, and I never saw panzer kunst as being nazi the first when I read it.

For me the very presence of the nazis in Gunnm
came as something ludicrous out of nowhere.(their goal unite mars and conquer the universe!!! come on this can't be serious!!) It is only with the latest phase that alittle idea took shape in the back of my mind, without the apparition of Erica in this context I wouldn't have given it much thought if any.
Now I never said that Kishiro was a fascist anywhere, one can have an interest in nazism or fascism on a purely historical grounds, you are jumping to conclusions. Making a character a nazi has never made the author become one, you know better than that.
What we have here, are just hints, I have already encountered mangas with more obvious references than that. Because Japanese people don't have the same perception of nazism as westerners do, and even among westerners there are different visions.
IF Kishiro were to have chosen to make Erica a nazi, it would obviously be because of the international implications of nazism, that is as bad as one can get. As no one seemed to have noticed, I just thought I had to to express this idea so that we could discuss it.
However we have no confirmation so far, so it is no use to get all worked up; morever the other hypothesis I have expressed at the end of my post, where I have summed up what I had already said in the "as to Erica and Gerda" thread, is as much likely as this one because it also explains the presence of Erica in the space port.

[ack44]

Check out the Nazis in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. They kick some serious booty. Yup, Japanese people aren't too concerned about being politically correct.

[Sam]

All that things just to say that we don't really know who is on the right or wrong side.
Since the moment we know that yoko was a terrorist (because she has tried to destroy Jeru), we all know that kunstlers are not in the right side, but who can say what is the right side, Zazie, a mars soldier defending people against extramarsian politics, or Erika, a murderer defending her own opinions?
This is war on Mars, for the moment there is no good or bad side, when it will have a winner, at this moment there will be a good or bad side.
Has I already said, this was mars soldiers who tried to kill Erika and Yoko, so...

[Cailon]

@akk44: thanks!

For me the very presence of the nazis in Gunnm
came as something ludicrous out of nowhere.(their goal unite mars and conquer the universe!!! come on this can't be serious!!)

You know, there is this Nazi-myth of Hitlers secret weapons, which would be introduced in the last days of the war, to roll back the Allies once and for all this time. Like a fully functioning V2 or futuristic airplanes and also the Haunebu, a flying saucer, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_UFOs
With these they flew to the Antarctica and/ or even to Andromeda, to build up a fourth reich and to come back some day. Although it seems, the nazis really did experiments with flying wing's, if all myth's are stripped off, nothing remains. Thats obviously the thing, Kishiro is refering to.

[Sergio Nova]

However this hypothesis may be interesting in terms of story telling: realizing that she belonged to a nazi group may cause a shock to Alita who may then be obliged to act as a cleansing element by wiping out the remaing kunstlers because as a fascist group they represent a danger to the the political stability of Martian government.

Shocking, I daresay.

(a society can be German based without being nazi, or so I hope)

Well, Nazism is an ideology, although many people (that includes me, certainly) disagree. Skinheads, on the other hand, at least here in Brazil, cannot be classified as ideologists. They are simply stupids - even because if any theorist of Aryan race disembarks here, he will order the execution of the cretins, as they are anything but Aryans. They are not able to speak German, simply, even because they are not able to speak Portuguese or any rational language. As a matter of fact, they are unable to think. They like to attack Negroes, homosexuals and any other group that is not classified as theirs - well, in Brazil, they would have to attack their own shadow.

For me the very presence of the nazis in Gunnm came as something ludicrous out of nowhere.(their goal unite mars and conquer the universe!!! come on this can't be serious!!)

Actually, that has historical basis.


Just to complete, let me observe that I have NOT understood you as a Nazi.