Artistic influence in BAA

[Cailon]

Norman Jewison's ^^

Remakes don't stop at anything :/
Lets wait for the 2001 remake, maybe with some sound in space? It was so damn quiet all the time

[moooV]

Look. A great thing came on to me after another re-reading of GNM.

Whole story is based using Schopengauer's philosophy and some of his base ideas.

I'll explain it now.
You see, YK is extremely educated and erudite, so he must have read classical German philosophy, no way he hasn't. Also, he makes a clear reference, even quotes Nietzsche by Makaku's character. And, as it is, Nietzsche is a student of Schopengauer, so he shares his ideas. So, if YK have read Nietzsche, he must have read Schopengauer, or, this is even more probable, that he has read Schopengauer first. I'm certain with it.


Now, let's go back to the story.

It revolves around Alita, her suffering, battles, and unpredictable twists of fate.
Schopengauer's main idea is that the world is not researchable by science nor mind. It is only researchable by suffering, conflicts, and twists of fate, his philosophy is called irrationalist. What does this remind you of? Right! Macro Karmatoron theory. Nova's research is mainly based on observation of this aspects. And his main subject of research is Alita, who's life itself is a great treasure for a karma researcher. So, now we can see, what could have inspired YK for developing such a thing.


One more thing, YK makes a reference to Fromm in Extra Stories (Sonic finger), where Alita saw it on a bookshelf.
And Figure's concept of freedom is a reformulated Fromm's concept of freedom.


It's strange that I've noticed it only after 83rd re-reading of gnm. o_0

[Dharko]

Saying "INFINITLY true" would be like think in Hegel, so, I"ll say "Everything is sadly true" [mode Schopenhauer]

[moooV]

Buagaga... I'll try to make simple example. =)))

Imagine that Aristotle, Kant, Hegel, Marx, and Shopengauer gathered in one room. If they are asked a question "If information we posess about world is adequate to the world itself, is it infinite, absolute truth?".
All of them would agree to that. But every of them would imagine different world.

Aristotle would see a world of consequense, Kant would see a world of phenomenon, Hegel would see a world of thought, Marx would see a world of matter, and Schopengauer would see... a world of Schopengauer.

That's the difference.

[Sergio Nova]

So, if YK have read Nietzsche, he must have read Schopengauer, or, this is even more probable, that he has read Schopengauer first. I'm certain with it.

Let me confess one thing: I have read Nietzsche, but I have never read Schopengauer. Actually, this is the first time I hear about him. Well, I'm far from perfect.

[ack44]

So, if YK have read Nietzsche, he must have read Schopengauer, or, this is even more probable, that he has read Schopengauer first. I'm certain with it.

I need to be honest, I've read Nietzsche, but I've never got to reading Schopengauer. Hell, I've never even heard of him. Fuck me!

[Dharko]

Well imagine that:

[Mode digress ON

Schopenhauer was Dark Vader
Hegel was Luck, he never wanted to recognize it [that D.Vader was his father and better than him]
and Nietzsche really wanted to be his son

Mode digress OFF]

sorry, too much beer...

[Sergio Nova]

Well imagine that:

[Mode digress ON

Schopenhauer was Dark Vader
Hegel was Luck, he never wanted to recognize it [that D.Vader was his father and better than him]
and Nietzsche really wanted to be his son

Mode digress OFF]

sorry, too much beer...

Finally, an explanation that makes sense.

[moooV]

Finally, an explanation that makes sense.

No sense at all for me. However, I haven't watched star wars at all.

Hegel was Luck, he never wanted to recognize it [that D.Vader was his father and better than him]

You have got it wrong. Shopengauer tried to disprove Hegel's work in any way, but he wasn't appropriate for his time, so only few listened to him. He was even published long after his death. He fought Hegel's ideas, and when he defeated him, he went back to Kant and defeated even him. o_0

Ok, to make it clear, one more smoked explanation:

Imagine a university.
In one class a teacher is Kant, he teaches objective realism. Lots of people come to his lections, even if his speech is complex, blurry, and hard to understand. One of his best students is Hegel, who develops a subjective realism later, based on ideas of Kant.
In another class a teacher is Schopengauer, who teaches irrationalism and throws shit in Kant's class direction. His speeches and theory are brilliant and beautiful, but nobody (or few) people attend his lections. One of those people was Neitzsche, who was his unofficial successor.


The next thing can be really far-fetched, but check it out:
Shopengauer is some similar looking to Nova. Give him glasses and he'll be Nova. o_0

[Sergio Nova]

Shopengauer is some similar looking to Nova. Give him glasses and he'll be Nova. o_0

1. His correct name is Schopenhauer, so. Because of that, no one could identify him!
2. No, he does not look like Nova.

[moooV]

You're right. Stupid mistake. However, I've written his name according to it's pronunciation. o_0

[Sergio Nova]

You're right. Stupid mistake. However, I've written his name according to it's pronunciation. o_0

Difficult! Although I cannot speak German, I'm informed enough to say that, in German, g sounds… g, and h sounds… h! Anyway, let's see what the teutophones say.

[Sam]

You're right. Stupid mistake. However, I've written his name according to it's pronunciation. o_0

Difficult! Although I cannot speak German, I'm informed enough to say that, in German, g sounds… g, and h sounds… h! Anyway, let's see what the teutophones say.

Heu, I think you better have to watch your tones guys, because that last word seems to me really disappointing for the germanophones, if i good remember it's like saying that they all are Nazi, that is really not.
But I could be wrong.

[Cailon]

As far as I know, teutophones has no implications like a nazistic attitude. Personally, I really don't know the difference, I understand both terms. Although I only found "germanophone" on wiki, "teutophones" is spread through the webpages, so really, I don't know^^

Schopenhauer is pronounced like written, but anyway. I thought, maybe someone, somewhere hit g instead of h, because they're right next to eachother.
The rest, what should I say.. Im too illiterate for this discussion. I read little Nietzsche, only enough to get the main idea, I barely read Kant (geez, I need one hour to read and understand one single page), and I never read Schopenhauer. Its all so damn complex.
Its a specific german thing, that one only believes in the deepness of your thoughts, if its written or said very complex. See the early Plato, he uses dialogue. Imagine Kant using dialogue, impossible. There never would have been this impact.

I too heard that story with the two classrooms. Funny that you also told it, so it seems its a anecdote.

[moooV]

Schopenhauer is pronounced like written, but anyway.

In Russian it's pronounced throgh g (hard g): ShopenGauer, so I've wrote it like this. Hovewer, it doesn't matter. =)))

For me, Plato was more difficult to undeerstand, than Kant. Especially Plato's "Feast", it has many sublevels, recursions, and so on (like in programming, I was shocked), this dualogue has lots of other sub-dialogues like "I was told this story by my friend, who was told it from Sokrate's friend, who was told it by Sokrate... bla bla bla... so here it is: bla bla bla". =)))

Kant is easier to understand, because he builds consequent thought. Only difficulty is because he compiles a sentence, and then negates it in next sentence, or even in next pararagraph, so you have to keep in mind previous sentences to understand next ones. =)))

IMHO, all of philosophers were really smoked up. o_0

[Sergio Nova]

Heu, I think you better have to watch your tones guys, because that last word seems to me really disappointing for the germanophones, if i good remember it's like saying that they all are Nazi, that is really not.
But I could be wrong.

As far as I know, French speakers are Francophones; English speakers are Anglophones; Portuguese speakers are Lusophones; German speakers are Teutophones, and so on.

I have never heard about Germanophones. Where have you found that?
If you have seen any form of discrimination/accusation here, you must be paranoic.

[crazyankan]

Sergio: Germanophones is another word for "German speaking" or more correct "German speaking countries"
and Teutophone, I never heard of it.

[Sergio Nova]

Sergio: Germanophones is another word for "German speaking" or more correct "German speaking countries"
and Teutophone, I never heard of it.

Well, Teuto is the prefix for compounds referring to German, as Anglo is the prefix referring to English, Franco to French, Luso to Portuguese, etc, as I have already said.

I believe you have already heard terms like Teutonic, Teutonism, Teuto-Soviet Pact, etc. So, there are Teutophone (German language speaker), Teutophonic (the adjective), Teutophony (the noun), etc.

None of my dictionaries (and I have lots) accredits Germanophony, although I could find it in Wikipedia (ironically, Teutophony is not there).

Anyway, as Cailon (a Teutophone) said, "Although I only found "germanophone" on wiki, "teutophones" is spread through the webpages, so really, I don't know^^"

[Sam]

Well, if the German people are not offensed with that word, that's ok for me!!
So, just for the precision, "Teuton" in my language was used to speak about the German occupying France during the World War 2, there were also all called as "Bosh". These words are really pejoratives for the German people and considered as fascist or nazist. Even if you don't found the word "Germanophone" in the dictionnary (what is really strange), it doesn't say that it doesn't exist. Vice for "teutophone".
I'm not paranoic, i just try to put myself at their place.

[Sergio Nova]

Well, if the German people are not offensed with that word, that's ok for me!!
So, just for the precision, "Teuton" in my language was used to speak about the German occupying France during the World War 2, there were also all called as "Bosh".

According to American Heritage Dictionary:

Teuton
n.


1. A member of an ancient people, probably of Germanic or Celtic origin, who lived in Jutland until about 100 B.C.
2. A member of any of the peoples speaking a Germanic language, especially a German.

According to Oxford English Dictionary:

Teuton

noun

a member of a Germanic people who lived in Jutland in the 4th century BC.

According to Collins English Dictionary:


Teuton

noun
1 a member of an ancient Germanic people from Jutland who migrated to S Gaul in the 2nd century B.C.: annihilated by a Roman army in 102 B.C.

2 a member of any people speaking a Germanic language, esp. a German

adjective
3 Teutonic

In short, the words are not pejorative. Calling Germans Teutons, English Anglos and so on, is just linguistic accuracy.

[Sam]

Thanks for your precisions Sergio, what i've done was not trying to disturb you, but just show you that some words can be misinterpreted

[moooV]

2 Sergio:
By the way, are you a linguist? (just curious) o_0

[Sergio Nova]

Thanks for your precisions Sergio, what i've done was not trying to disturb you, but just show you that some words can be misinterpreted

Actually, I have to apologize. I finished sounding rude, and that was not polite.

2 Sergio:
By the way, are you a linguist? (just curious) o_0

Nope. I am just tiresome - especially about linguistic accuracy.
An aunt of mine is used to saying that I was born already old.
Now what? I love myself that way!

[Akumeno]

but man you're really polite, I dunno where are you from, but when I read you like I'm reading a polite english Gentleman!

But not pay attention to me I'm just a wacky mexican, and finally no more philosofy ppl we have no more wed to smoke

[ack44]

Nope. I am just tiresome - especially about linguistic accuracy.

Yeah, we can tell.