Avatar Movie Trailer is out.

[Gallygun]

Okay, I saw it because it was the only movie my family could agree on.

I liked the visuals, A LOT, they were amazing, and the designs of the creatures were fantastic!

The story was so bland, and it went no where for the first hour and a half. BORING! XP

Never saw the ending, the only good part (like TItanic) because the power went out in the whole neighborhood of the theater, it may have been hours before it came back on. The 3D actually gave me a headache (not JC's fault, though lol), and I won't even go see it for free again to see the ending.

[Milliardo]

your relly missing out

[Gallygun]

your relly missing out

I know!!! I'm guessing all the great action was at the end, too!

I just couldn't stand the lame story!

[BeastSoulEyes]

Avatar = Cowboys vs. Native Americans in a future where humanity has the capacity to go to freaking Alpha Centauri but cannot heal someone from being crippled or to destroy a bunch of amazon warriors, you take that and you add some classic Romeo and Juliet and you have Avatar.

Truly a masterpiece, truly....

[rant]
If you talk about 2009 movies, there is one movie that MUST be mentioned, DISTRICT 9. THAT was a masterpiece, and made with like 1/10th of the budget of a regular blockbuster. District 9 proves that you don't need money to make a great successful movie, you need talent, ohhh and of course you also need consumers that will finally stop to go see garbage movies to be able to forget during 2hours that one day they are going to die, and it will likely be painful.
[/rant]

I feel better. Sorry about that.

[Gallygun]

Avatar = Cowboys vs. Native Americans in a future where humanity has the capacity to go to freaking Alpha Centauri but cannot heal someone from being crippled or to destroy a bunch of amazon warriors, you take that and you add some classic Romeo and Juliet and you have Avatar.

Truly a masterpiece, truly....

[rant]
If you talk about 2009 movies, there is one movie that MUST be mentioned, DISTRICT 9. THAT was a masterpiece, and made with like 1/10th of the budget of a regular blockbuster. District 9 proves that you don't need money to make a great successful movie, you need talent, ohhh and of course you also need consumers that will finally stop to go see garbage movies to be able to forget during 2hours that one day they are going to die, and it will likely be painful.
[/rant]

I feel better. Sorry about that.

That movie looked great. I wanted to see it, simply forgot, though.

[moooV]

I'm going to watch the movie this week. In the meantime, here's what I've found:
http://io9.com/5420143/5-designers-reve ... ons-avatar

[kinai]

Avatar = Cowboys vs. Native Americans in a future where humanity has the capacity to go to freaking Alpha Centauri but cannot heal someone from being crippled or to destroy a bunch of amazon warriors, you take that and you add some classic Romeo and Juliet and you have Avatar.

Truly a masterpiece, truly....

Well, they CAN heal someone from being crippled, but you HAVE TO pay for it. And I suppose that they can destroy the amazon warriors easily, if you have the intention to start a war and not only a few soldiers to defend a mine installation in a hostile planet.

I watched the film and I think that it is a good film. Yes, the story can be similar to others, but the film as a whole is a better story that other with a similar budget (Transformers2). Overall:8/10

Kinai.

[DDTL]

Avatar = Cowboys vs. Native Americans in a future where humanity has the capacity to go to freaking Alpha Centauri but cannot heal someone from being crippled or to destroy a bunch of amazon warriors, you take that and you add some classic Romeo and Juliet and you have Avatar.

Truly a masterpiece, truly....

Salut, camarade français !

You haven't seen the movie, don't you ?
And you know, we can make this kind of simplified synopsis for almost every movie...

I saw Avatar for the second time today, and I found that the story and the characters are deeper than excepted... A lot of people say that the story is cheesy, naive and so on, but when you look carefully, you realize that the movie is quite pessimistic about the human nature and the future of mankind, and that the happy end is finally not so happy... Well, of course it is just MY opinion.
So now I'm waiting for the release of the "full lenght" version of Avatar on DVD !

And I still haven't seen District 9, what a pity, this movie looks so good !

[Sergio Nova]

I saw Avatar for the second time today, and I found that the story and the characters are deeper than excepted... A lot of people say that the story is cheesy, naive and so on, but when you look carefully, you realize that the movie is quite pessimistic about the human nature and the future of mankind, and that the happy end is finally not so happy... Well, of course it is just MY opinion.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but the synopsis you gave is cliché. Every futurist movie, good or bad, seems to say the same.

[DDTL]

I saw Avatar for the second time today, and I found that the story and the characters are deeper than excepted... A lot of people say that the story is cheesy, naive and so on, but when you look carefully, you realize that the movie is quite pessimistic about the human nature and the future of mankind, and that the happy end is finally not so happy... Well, of course it is just MY opinion.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but the synopsis you gave is cliché. Every futurist movie, good or bad, seems to say the same.

Well, I said that because some people say that Avatar has a "cheesy" story (like a story for children). And James Cameron himself has said that Avatar is more an "action/adventure fantasy film" rather than a "SF film". But of course, you're totally right, this pessimism is quite cliché (every message in 99,9999% of the movies/novels/comics is cliché !), you find this cliché in Gunnm or Akira for example, but on my point of view in Avatar it is quite well told. I think Hitchcock has said something like that "the thing that makes a good story is not the story itself, but the way you tell it" (forgive me if the quote is wrong).

Well, of course this kind of stuff about the message and so on is a matter of personal feeling... and it is good ! I like when a movie, like 2001 : a space odyssey, can bring several different interpretations depending on the viewer !

[Sergio Nova]

I like when a movie, like 2001 : a space odyssey, can bring several different interpretations depending on the viewer !

Although I haven't seen Avatar yet, I daresay that comparing Kubrik and Cameron is a sort of heresy.

[DDTL]

I like when a movie, like 2001 : a space odyssey, can bring several different interpretations depending on the viewer !

Although I haven't seen Avatar yet, I daresay that comparing Kubrik and Cameron is a sort of heresy.

Ooooh, come on... Have I compared Cameron to Kubrick ? I have just said that 2001 is an interesting movie because of the many possible interpretations, and I like such thing. Of course Avatar is not so... well, so "open" to many interpretations than 2001. Both are totally different movies, it would be completely pointless to compare them... I'm not so idiot
So, please, stop deforming what I say...

[Chase]

It really is an amazing movie. He is going to base Battle Angel on the same technology, but I am glad he did this one first (more practice). If James Cameron is doing it, you just know everyone is going to want to see it. He makes those awesome movies like Terminator, Avatar, Titanic, Rambo, The Abyss, etc. I am glad he did Avatar first because he knows the technology to do it is tested out now. I just hope he stays true to the Manga (as much as one can expect anyway).

[DDTL]

He makes those awesome movies like Terminator, Avatar, Titanic, Rambo, The Abyss, etc.

He didn't make Rambo.
I have heard that he has written a first script for Rambo II, but that Sylvester Stallone has changed his script into a reaganian action movie script...

[BeastSoulEyes]

Haha, t'es un vrai francais lol, on peut pas s'empecher de demarrer des conversations qui durent

[/french mode]

[hate mode]
Back to Avatar, I just saw the movie, and I daresay I was wrong, it is not bad, it's AWFUL!!!!

And before you start reading the rest of this, warning! This is a giant rant! And a big one! I'm not kind at all with the movie, and I use some strong language, you have been warned. Let's go now.

To put it simply, it's a kid movie made for money, that's it, nothing more, nothing less. NOTHING in this movie makes sense.
I have to agree with you on this one DDOT, this movie makes a very very bad portrait of the human race. First, of course we are ALL americans, wannabes cowboys who only think about blowing stuffs up, right?? We finally have a way to get to Alpha Centauri, you would think that if we managed to get to this level we would have evolved a bit, or at least not look exactly like what we are NOW?? If it was really the case, if we were still exactly the sames, you would not see just a small corporate colony on Pandora, but legions and legions of "gold rushers", ready to exterminate the Navi by all means.
Also, how come everything the humans do on Pandora is decorated with big glasses and devices that just ASK to be broken to kill them? How did they managed to get to Pandora and still have a need for foot soldiers, and those foot soldiers, you would think they would give them something to protect their heads, or something that can be called an armor? Have they heard of engineering before leaving Earth???
What I really don't like about this whole portrait of humanity, is that it doesn't help us, nor does it makes us learn anything. Okay we are not all blue, big, strong, and in tune with nature like the Navi, now what? What should we do? Become barbaric again?? Where is our salvation? The movie doesn't care, we are just the bad guys, we are just here to be beaten. Classical from a blockbuster.

Most of the characters are lame:
- the yankee is an idiot, PERIOD. None of his actions make any sense, he is lucky he is in a freakin Disney-like movie.
- The Navi girl is just here to be fucked, THAT's IT. We need some romance in every blockbuster, right?
- The redneck is too stupid and reckless to be liked, unlike the mercenary leader in District9.
- The geek was useless. Got his scene bleeding and screaming and gone.
- The corporate guy is a caricature, you feel that they have forced the character to be that way to have a stupid villain that would create all this mess.
- The young Navi warrior was also a caricature, but one of a human African nomad.
- The professor was the only role that was decent, but guess what, of course she fuckin dieee...
- The girl pilot is just here for some sexy time. She is cliche, ala "Hey I'm a good person, I'm in the military but I don't want kill to people, but hey I'm so nice that they won't throw me in jail too for insubordination and I will throw away my life for no real reason but to make the plot advance".

And now the Navi,.... Seriously those guys are just humans with very big noises, blue skin and a tail. They react in a very human way in their feelings, cultures, rites, none of what they do seems alien to me. The only distinct feature they have is their linking hair, that actually was pretty nice and interesting. Other than that, they are just a parody of the native american, coupled with some nomadic African tribes. Mix those two together and you have the Navi, simple enough right?
I remember a couple years ago, when Cameron promised us that we would get to another world with this movie... at this time, I was sure that he was going to create a race so genuinely alien that we would be forced to acknowledge his genius, but hey I guess having the hero fall in love with something that was not remotely human would have been bad for the sales, RIGHT???

All I can say is, I didn't like the movie, it was hollow, very shinny thanks to the special effects, but still hollow. I have nothing against liking the movie, to each his or her own, BUT what I'm not ok with is saying that this thing is a great movie, for me it's a passable movie, I wouldn't feel like missing something if I didn't saw it, and I can be ok with someone saying it's a good movie. A great movie is an experience, Avatar was just entertainment as usual.

[/hate mode]

That was good !

[DDTL]

I have nothing against liking the movie, to each his or her own, BUT what I'm not ok with is saying that this thing is a great movie, for me it's a passable movie, I wouldn't feel like missing something if I didn't saw it, and I can be ok with someone saying it's a good movie. A great movie is an experience, Avatar was just entertainment as usual.

I'm quite happy to read this ! Despite I've really enjoyed the movie (but of course I'll never say that Avatar is the ultimate masterpiece on Earth, and my favorite James Cameron's movies are still the 2 Terminators), I understand your point of view.

You are completely right about the fact that Cameron wanted to make the audience comfortable with the human technology, the alien... As you said, who would be attached to a giant octopus or something like that ? Well, you have surely an idea about the cost of the movie, so I'm sure you understand that Cameron MUST make a "mainstream" movie if he wants to earn money... So the alien must look basically humans, the hero must be cliché, there must be good vs evil, and so on...
That's why I'm waiting for the full length release on DVD.
In the original script (you can find it on Internet), Cameron describes the future Earth as a giant garbage in energy crisis, and I think it was a bad idea to cut this, because it would add more emotional impact about the motivations of the humans (they are on Pandora to save their dying Earth from the energy crisis, not just to get rich).

For the characters :

- I agree with you about the hero, but honestly I have seen worst. Some of his punch lines are really irritating ("Give up Quaritch !", "This is our land !" ala Independence Day, "let's dance !" to the ikran, WTF ?). But the fact that he "betrays" his own specie is quite interesting for me (we don't talk about culture, but about species), not new of course, but still interesting.

- I don't agree at all for the Na'vi girl. She is maybe cliché, but she is not here only to "be fucked". Megan Fox in Transformers (well, most of the female characters in Michael Bay's movies), THIS is an example of female character "just here to be fucked".
Cameron is a feminist, for each movie he creates strong female character(s). Neytiri is a warrior, she has her own personality (well, quite cliché, but it is still a personality) she initiates Jake to the Na'vi culture, let say to his new life (we can almost see her as a maternal figure), she saves him twice (SPOIL : she kills the bad guy and she rescues Jake with the breath mask), so NO, she is not useless at all.

- About the colonel, I haven't seen District 9 so I cannot compare. YES the colonel is a fucking stereotype... and for me, an AWESOME stereotype. At least he is "credible" : I'm sure that this kind of guy exists already on Earth. We can almost see him as the paternal figure : first he trusted the hero, felt close to him (they are both marines, they have made the same war, they are both injuried : Jake with his legs, Quaritch with the scar on his face, he is colonel, Jake is caporal, etc...), gave him a mission, after that he is pissed off by the betrayal of Jake ("Hey Jake, how does it feel to betray your own race ?")

- I agree about the geek (Norman), I still haven't seen his purpose... Maybe we will learn more about him with the DVD

- I don't agree at all about the corporate guy. Maybe one of the most interesting character, maybe the only "grey" character. Of course he is cynical, he doesn't give a fuck about the Na'vi culture, but he never wanted this mess. It is him who insisted to find a "diplomatic solution" (the cheapest solution). He never asked for the war (too expensive !), but at the end Quaritch seems to take the control. And he is also a credible character : I'm sure that both our actual capitalist world and the history of colonization are full of guys like him.

- I agree for the young Navi warrior, quite useless... A rival for Jake, maybe ?

- The professor is an interesting character, well portrayed by Sigourney Weaver. A second maternal figure ?

- I agree for the girl pilot... "what, she disobeys but she isn't punished for insubordination ? Wait, she joins the Na'vi ?". Well, maybe in the full length version...


Well, for me the biggest "plot hole" was the fact that Jake seems to link with the big red dragon too easily. Like "oh, I just have to jump on him from an higher point ! These stupid Navis haven't figure out that in 5 generations ?". I'm surprised you haven't pointed this out !

So of course this movie is FAR from being perfect (the music is, hum, let say quite random in quality...). The original script seems to be more deeper than the final product... But for me it is still a very, very, very good final product. I really spent a good time watching it, and I'm thinking about going see it for a third time.

(c'est quand même marrant de devoir te répondre en anglais alors qu'on a tous les deux la même langue maternelle... mon anglais est encore loin d'être parfait, pour expliquer le fond de ma pensée c'est pas toujours évident )

[Chase]

Well a pilot pulling out can be made up with an excuse such as 'the fuel gauge read I was at the "point of no return"' (Point of no return, menaing would not have fuel to make it back to base). Doesn't mean it had to be true, just seem plausible at the time (equipment malfunction does happen). Considering the distance to the base, (it took 3 months for the dozers to get there). As for the her brining them the meal later on, she either volunteered or she commandeered, more likely the second, but cannot be sure.

But I do see it somewhat implausible a trained pilot would pull out just because of something like this (though they are free to have their moral qualms).

[Sergio Nova]

We finally have a way to get to Alpha Centauri, you would think that if we managed to get to this level we would have evolved a bit, or at least not look exactly like what we are NOW?? If it was really the case, if we were still exactly the sames, you would not see just a small corporate colony on Pandora, but legions and legions of "gold rushers", ready to exterminate the Navi by all means.

Let me disagree:
1. What do you mean by "evolve"? Physically? If that is the point, we have not evolved for millenia.
1. No, you would not have legions and legions of gold rushers, simply because such a trip should be very expensive, and the transportations are supposedly controlled by governments and/or great corporations.

And now the Navi,.... Seriously those guys are just humans with very big noises, blue skin and a tail. They react in a very human way in their feelings, cultures, rites, none of what they do seems alien to me. The only distinct feature they have is their linking hair, that actually was pretty nice and interesting. Other than that, they are just a parody of the native american, coupled with some nomadic African tribes. Mix those two together and you have the Navi, simple enough right?

Although I am not a JC's fan, it seems you will have, first of all, to condemn universes like Star Trek and Star Wars to start with. Besides, there are some religious groups that accept the possibility of existing intelligent life in outer space, but they insist that such species would also be God's image and likeness (even physically, I mean). Considering the most different productions we have had on cinema and TV, many people share that idea, not just Cameron.

- The girl pilot is just here for some sexy time. She is cliche, ala "Hey I'm a good person, I'm in the military but I don't want kill to people, but hey I'm so nice that they won't throw me in jail too for insubordination and I will throw away my life for no real reason but to make the plot advance".

Of course it is cliché. It is James cameron. There is no surprise.

DDTL mentioned "Independence Day". Yes, there are worst things out there.

Let me be honest: I liked the creatures. Cool!!

As I said before, Cameron is good to direct action movies. He is is also great to work with FX, but he has never been a great characters builder. He would not change now. Although some people do believe that miracles happen, I have never witnessed that.

[moooV]

GUYS! I haven't still read your comments, but I'll post mine before I've forgotten what I wanted to say.

I've WATCHED Avatar today, and it was amazing! This was the most beautiful movie I've ever seen! I was WRONG about JC, I've underestimated him.


Today I've woke up early and went to the first opening in the movie theater. I've went to a VIP movie hall to watch a 3D IMAX Avatar. Luckily, there were only a few people in the hall due to the earliness of the opening, so I wasn't distracted from watching.


What I want to say is that I've really liked this movie, it was incredible, I thought my head would explode from it's awesomeness! Moreover, I daresay, that it's the most beautiful movie I've ever seen, everything is perfect!


I want to apologize for my previous joke - it isn't full of cliches as I've predicted. There is nothing like "bows and arrows vs technology", "americans are searching for oil", and "good guys vs bad guys, but then the bad guys become good and vice versa".
It all looks completely logical, the plot fits together perfectly. It hasn't left any questions for me like "why they were able to go to Alpha Centauri, but were unable to cure the guy's legs". Even the question "why SHE is speaking human language" has an answer.

The alien animals really look like they've been through evolution and weren't born by the designers' imagination! The picture is so beautiful that it really blows your mind away, the colors are so extraordinary - they shock you, such an acid color schemes!


The last thing I want to say is that I was WRONG. I was underestimating JC, I was joking about him! This was the most beautiful movie I've ever seen and it's the FIRST movie I've felt happiness while watching it! The only thought I've had after watching this movie was "Thank you James Cameron for such an incredible happiness you'we delivered to me!".

Now I've started seriously respecting him. Also, this has proven to me that he IS ABLE to make a perfect BAA movie... but still I'm afraid about it. I'm afraid of the crowds relatively to the BAA movie (see my previous posts about it).

Furthemore, it's shaken my opinion that the BAA movie shouldn't be made. Now I've just stopped caring about it so much. If it'll be done - it surely will be a masterpiece, if it won't be made- I'll just be glad.

Also I want to say that the Avatar's ending excludes the possibility of Avatar 2, so...

[DDTL]

@Int 29Ah : WOW ! First BeastSoulEyes completely hated the movie, then you loved it... Both very extreme points of view

So you have seen it in IMAX 3D ? Lucky bastard !
(the funny fact is that there is only ONE IMAX theater in France... Guess in which city...)

Did you fall in love with Neytiri ?
What do you think about the colonel Quaritch and Parker Selfridge ?

@Sergio : glad to see that you seem to have quite enjoyed the movie (is my sentence correct ?)

[Sergio Nova]

@Sergio : glad to see that you seem to have quite enjoyed the movie (is my sentence correct ?)

Not exactly. I simply admit it is above the average and it is good pastime.
As to the rest, the fact that I am not JC fan does not make me so obtuse to exaggerate when criticinzing.
Is it absurd to have humanoids so far? We will have to erase all the history of cinema (or almost). Also, I had forgotten before, but even in District 9 the aliens are humanoid.
In short, Cameron is far from a genius, but I would never say the plot in the movie is absurd. If we decide to comabt clichés, we will have to start with Spielberg. The exceptions? Let me see: Ridley Scott, Terry Gilliam, Zack Snyder, Robert Rodriguez, Jean-Jacques Annaud, Quentim Tarantino… and right now I cannot think about anyone else.

[DDTL]

Is it absurd to have humanoids so far? We will have to erase all the history of cinema (or almost). Also, I had forgotten before, but even in District 9 the aliens are humanoid.

+1

In short, Cameron is far from a genius,

-1

If we decide to comabt clichés, we will have to start with Spielberg. The exceptions? Let me see: Ridley Scott, Terry Gilliam, Zack Snyder, Robert Rodriguez, Jean-Jacques Annaud, Quentim Tarantino… and right now I cannot think about anyone else.

I'm sorry but I don't agree at all about Zack Snyder.
- The Army Of The Dead is a remake... So you can not talk about "avoiding cliché" if Snyder just picked the story of an other film.
- Both 300 and Watchmen are almost copy paste of the original comics... So quite easy to avoid (or not) clichés, just depends on the original material... Indeed, Watchmen is a (very) good movie, but only because the comic upon it is based is a masterpiece... 300, not cliché ? Come on, 300 courageous white bodybuilded warriors kick the ass of an army of evil stupid Arabs... I mean Perses... More manichean, you die...
On the other hand, Cameron writes himself the script of ALL his movies (except Piranha of course).

For other directors, maybe you were thinking about Kubrick ?

[moooV]

By the way, look what I've found: http://io9.com/5431490/what-comes-after ... ore-avatar.

Back to the topic, I'd like to add that I've found a really fresh idea in Avatar is neuroconnection to the flora and fauna of the planet. That's at least an unusual idea.

[Sergio Nova]

- The Army Of The Dead is a remake... So you can not talk about "avoiding cliché" if Snyder just picked the story of an other film.
- Both 300 and Watchmen are almost copy paste of the original comics... So quite easy to avoid (or not) clichés, just depends on the original material... Indeed, Watchmen is a (very) good movie, but only because the comic upon it is based is a masterpiece... 300, not cliché ? Come on, 300 courageous white bodybuilded warriors kick the ass of an army of evil stupid Arabs... I mean Perses... More manichean, you die...

1. I had never heard about The Army of the Dead. I will have to check it.
2. As I said before, copying and pasting is just a case of talent (and, as you must have noticed, not so common).
3. Well, it is a confrontation Greeks-Persians, not Americans-Arabians. Also, it is history, not a simple story. Last but not the least, let me remember you that Persians/Iranians are NOT Arabians. But the strength is Snyder's narrative (in both 300 and Watchmen). Just repeating myself, he even makes a perfet reading of his characters' voices (Leonidas included) and that is not so simple just copying and pasting, as you say, such detailed writers as Frank Miller and Allan Moore.

On the other hand, Cameron writes himself the script of ALL his movies (except Piranha of course).

You will end up erasing Piranha from Cameron's cinematography.

For other directors, maybe you were thinking about Kubrick ?

I love all his films with the honorable exception of Lolita (an awful mistake). The only problem is that he is irresponsibly dead.

[Cailon]

I watched it a few days ago. Yesterday I was at the movies again to watch some crap with a friend, just to fill the evening and an Avatar trailer was aired. It totally made me wanna watch this movie again!

So, yeah, I too have to apologize for all the hate beforehand. Let's just forget for one minute that JC is going to make BAA, lets forget the absurdly expensive entry money. IT WAS A GREAT MOVIE!

I get the points Burnung Angel mentioned, the thing is, I'm more with the points DDTL countered. Of course you're sitting in the chair, knowing for 2 hours how it is all going to end, and some guys are very much too "america-oh-america" for me, too, but so what? JC never had the intention of building up any suspence on how the outcome will be or who's the bad and who's the good guy. I also found some plot-holes, like why have all mammals 6 legs but the NAvi have only 4? The easy taming of the Uber-bird. But again, so what?
In The Dark Knight, nobody would've said "heey wait... this gun of his, it would never work in reality, dude. And the joker, just why is he so evil, what drives him?" - because it was a comic adaption.
And now with Avatar, an eye-candy-movie set in SPACE, people are caring for plotholes and completely written out characters? It's not Almodovar here, and Almodovar would probably never do a space opera^^
Instead of picking and searching for holes, rather enjoy this huge LSD-trip! God, reality was sooo lame and in 2D again when came out of the theater