vol 13?

[Sergio Nova]

As usual, Lemonlol's work is great!

[^Ripper]

Editing goes along nicely and if all goes well i can put out a RC later tonight/tomorrow.
The cleanup has been done, now to get the text changed in the last 3 chapters.
The 7 chapters have different resolutions, but i fear that resizing it all to one size will only ruin the artwork.
So its probably best to let them be at their resolutions.

Nice editing of the art pages lemonlol

[^Ripper]

.......
This is going soo friggin slow.....
What the hell translation should i use.
Ours, the ones donated...they are so different.

I mean the donated phases 82-85 read fluent, look good but sometimes lack in detail compared to the translation here.
And then every other page they tell you the exact OPPOSITE!!!
Getting a little frustrated here...
Like 82 the Darwin explanation...totally opposite.
I can get by the naming errors, but this doesnt help a bit.

I'm trying to merger the best of both sets to get the best possible, but its so friggin hard when half the lines do not match what they say.

So what to use in doubt? ours or theirs?
Is there so much lost from the jap-spanish-english translation?
Or is it too literal.

I dunno i have been staring at 12 pages for 3 friggin hours now with 4 image compare windows open, photoshop, this forum 2x and google...

[edit]
@ TargaryenX and others

http://www.mediafire.com/?mybl4mjqjym This to clarify the differences.
For the translation thread go here: http://www.rippersanime.com/Forum/viewt ... ?f=5&t=413

I'm not asking for a complete retranslation, but asking which is correct.
[/edit]

[TargaryenX]

Get me the raws and your translations, I'll see what I can do. And yes, I'm surprised that a Japanese-Spanish-English translation makes any sense at all.

[Sergio Nova]

If my opinion counts, use our translation. It is posted here for discussion and commented. Besides, Burning Angel is fluent both in Spanish and English, what does mean something.

I could not find any note on Darwin in the donated edition (theirs is in Japanese, I mean), anyway, mine was collected from Babylon Dictionary and Encyclopaedia Britannica. It is obviously abbreviated there. The complete text is available in the glossary only.

[Lemonlol]

At first, I'd have said to keep your translation. But... the "donated" version makes more sense to me. When the meaning is almost the same between the two version, the "donated" phrasing seems better. When the meaning is opposite... well... I can't really tell, but considering the rest of the translation, I simply suppose they're right.

As for the raw... I don't know for TargaryenX, but I just couldn't read the kanjis on the raw. Like, with the font used on page 13 for Pissarro's speech, it's simply too blurry.

But there's still some texts I'd have changed in their version:

• 16, 4th bubble: I felt a soul putting ITS (or HIS, but not YOUR) entire life at stake!!
• 17, 2nd bubble: RELYING (it may just be me, but this word clears up some confusion, instead of DEPENDING) on something... and the resolution to throw away your own life for IT (so you get the idead it's the same "something" and not another one)...

There's no page 25 for the "donated" version?

Anyway, that's just my own opinion. I would rely more on TargaryenX's opinion, since he can tell from japanese.

[^Ripper]

Phase 82:

1st one is ours, second the donated ones.

Page 1, bubble 1. (Not that big a difference, but still different. personally i like the 2nd)
"He's against Taraba!!
vs
"Taraba has been impaled!"

Page 2
Page: 3, top + center piece. (1st one just reads strange on our translation, second the pupper/dummy part is way different)

"What...What the hell! I see it. When he was here...he was a trickster. Every time he makes the change of places on time..."
vs
"W...What the hell!? Then the one here is...of course a fake. When the hell did they switch places?"

"Instead of murdering us immediatly he enjoys making us his silly puppets. He absobs me...homme du fue's plan absorbs me...
vs
"Not killing me right away was just to draw attention to the dummy...mnyu. Everything was his strategy...mnyunyu"

Page 13, 3rd panel (The darwin thing)
When read with the translators note arent they saying the complete opposite?

Page 15, 1st panel
Should it read that his insides were eaten(corroded) away and leaves a shell just like an empty bug.
(that does look so if you look at page 7 of phase 83)
Or should it really read that bugs have eaten his insides?

Now i don´t doubt Burning Angel's spanish-english.
Its just it differers so greatly sometimes.
What i was saying is that the translation of Japanese <-> Spanish the translation of Japanese <-> English provided too many differences.
Or maybe one of the two is more literal then the other.
Making lines read fluent is one thing, translating them is another.

Anyway maybe i'm just being picky, but i would like to know with what translation we are doing this.

[Burning Angel]

Now i don´t doubt Burning Angel's spanish-english.
Its just it differers so greatly sometimes.
What i was saying is that the translation of Japanese <-> Spanish the translation of Japanese <-> English provided too many differences.
Or maybe one of the two is more literal then the other.
Making lines read fluent is one thing, translating them is another.

I didn't participate in the translation or corrections of Phase 82. My participation began with Phase 88. But thanks for the attention.

And here is my opinion. Remember, I don't know Japanese. I'm just writing what sounds better to me.

Page 1, bubble 1. (Not that big a difference, but still different. personally i like the 2nd)
"He's against Taraba!!
vs
"Taraba has been impaled!"

I like the second one, too.

Page 2
Page: 3, top + center piece. (1st one just reads strange on our translation, second the pupper/dummy part is way different)

"What...What the hell! I see it. When he was here...he was a trickster. Every time he makes the change of places on time..."
vs
"W...What the hell!? Then the one here is...of course a fake. When the hell did they switch places?"

I'd write: "W...What the hell!? Then the one here...is a fake. When the hell did they switch places?"//or//"W...What the hell!? Then he's...a fake. When the hell did they switch places?"

Instead of murdering us immediatly he enjoys making us his silly puppets. He absobs me...homme du fue's plan absorbs me...
vs
"Not killing me right away was just to draw attention to the dummy...mnyu. Everything was his strategy...mnyunyu"

I'd write: "Instead of murdering us immediatly, he enjoys toying with us. It's part of his strategy" (I don't understand the context of "draw attention to the dummy...mnyu" What dummy is he refering to?)

Page 13, 3rd panel (The darwin thing)
When read with the translators note arent they saying the complete opposite?

Page 15, 1st panel
Should it read that his insides were eaten(corroded) away and leaves a shell just like an empty bug.
(that does look so if you look at page 7 of phase 83)
Or should it really read that bugs have eaten his insides?

Sorry, can't help you here. Although I like the first one better.

[Lemonlol]

• p1, b1: The meaning is slightly different, so I don't know.
• p3, b2 + b3: Then put something like "w... what the hell!? then the one here... of course, it's a fake. when the hell did they switch places?"
• p3, b5 + b6: The "donated" version emphasize the fact that he plans good strategies. That's the point of the Darwin discussion and Taraba's amazement: the fact that he's not just a brutal primitive beast. And he's referring to the sluggish Homme du feu that is melting, as the "dummy" ("decoy" would be more adequate).
• p13, tl note: I don't know... The note is kind of strange. I wouldn't use it. I doesn't really make much sense since Homme du feu didn't really corrupt anything... or did he? It looks more like he has adapted to Taraba's ultimate defense, using Taraba's honesty.
• p15, b1 + b2: I'd vote for the "insides corroded" and the "empty shell", rather than the "eating bugs".

[Cailon]

If another oppinion of a non-japanese speaker counts... I hope to not only add fire to the confusion.

FIRST, I have to say that parts of phase 82 where very hard to get, especially when Taraba had screentime. To decipher all his spiritual rant may be possible but the cost-benefit calculation is very bad, since this promising character dies as quickly as he shows up. So, just "meh", let him have his talk and up we go to the next phase. (is this blasphemy?^^)

You can't say exactly the same about the Venus team, but they, too, had rather little screentime. Pizarros philosophy applies to the whole Venusian Republic, so it matters in that way. (However the main team got wiped out very quickly, you can't say that Alduína, Bigorne, Chicheface and Olympe had much screentime. So on another hand it matters not too much.)

@ the Darwin thing on page 13:
Since Darwin states: "The one who can adapt itself to its environment perfectly will survive." (rare species that live only in this one place, e.g. Galapagos)
and Pizarro states: "No! The one that can adapt it's environment to itself perfectly will survive." (e.g. the Humpty-Dumptys wi'll rather "grow" a Zekkaflesh®-chair instead of "evolving" to a normal shape, to use an ordinary chair.)
Thus, I'd say the meaning of his words have to be "to pervert", not "to worship".

@Lemonlol: I think the tl note refers to the entire venusian philosophy. At least for me, it helped me understand what I was trying to put in my own words just now..
But maybe it could be re-written, since "corrupted" may really not be the best choice...?

[Burning Angel]

@ the Darwin thing on page 13:
Since Darwin states: "The one who can adapt itself to its environment perfectly will survive." (rare species that live only in this one place, e.g. Galapagos)
and Pizarro states: "No! The one that can adapt it's environment to itself perfectly will survive." (e.g. the Humpty-Dumptys wi'll rather "grow" a Zekkaflesh®-chair instead of "evolving" to a normal shape, to use an ordinary chair.)
Thus, I'd say the meaning of his words have to be "to pervert", not "to worship".

Actually Darwin states: "The ones who can best adapt themselves to their environment will survive." (It comes from the misquote: "In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment.")

Then Pizarro should state "No! The ones that can best adapt their environment to themselves will survive."

And I think that the meaning of his words should be "to corrupt".

[^Ripper]

Time goes fast when your busy with other things :/

CoD MW 2 is a nice timesuck too for what time i have each day.

Anyway here is the proofreading version of volume 13.
http://stuff.rippersanime.com/Gunnm_LO_ ... eading.zip

It should be complete except for page 206-207 wich needs a little translation.


I hope you like the editing and that there are not too many errors
The translation used is "ours" with some use of the "donated" versions.

Any feedback would be welcome!

( I am aware the filenames read volume 12 >_> )

[Lemonlol]

I didn't check the translations, since it has already been discussed, for what you had doubts.

• p000: Oh god... Save it as 24bits png or jpeg (60% quality), but not 8bits . And resize to 1400.
• p001-002: WTF, it's not japanese! Otherwise, resize to 1400.
• p003: Resize to 1400. Save as grayscale 32 colors 8bits png. Or RGB, but 24bits png, or jpeg (60% quality).
• p004: Resize to 1400.
• p032: Resize to 1400.
• p064: Resize to 1200.
• p090: Resize to 1400.
• p116: Resize to 1232. Remove texts. The texts were... *cough* *cough*... jokes...
• p142: Resize to 1400. Remove text.
• Phase80: Resize to 1400.
• p174: Resize to 1400. Remove text.
• Phase81: Resize to 1400.
• p206-207: Save as 8bits png, but with enough colors to make the gray areas "smooth" (cf. gutter and left border).
• p208: Save as 24bits png.
• No credits page at all?

( I am aware the filenames read volume 12 >_> )

You can easily do it with a batch renamer. (exemple)

[^Ripper]

The program i used to batch convert with that proof reading watermark in it don't do well.
Naturally i will provide the color pages in Hi-Q jpeg or 24 bit png.

The phases and the insert art pages have a different res i know.
Downscaling shouldn't be that big of impact on quality, but upscaling of phase 76, 78 (volumewise) might blur things.
Let me look at how it goes.

Credits page will be fun...how many people have worked on these
Thats always the last thing to do.

The filerenaming i have a nice program to do it.

[Sergio Nova]

My time to contribute:

page 005
tl note:
The kanji for desire also means ambition, appetite or lust, and as it can be read through the chapter, Homme du Feu shows the various aspects of it. [structure (Japanese kanji is a pleonasm); punctuation]

page 006
panel 1:
République Vénus representative side, Genome Kingdom Platform. (accentuation)

page 007
panel 2:
Genome Kingdom chief gesigner, Pissarro Crié de Vouivre. (punctuation, accentuation)

page 009
panel 1
Homme du Feu: Monsieur Pissarro! (punctuation)
panel 3
Pissarro: Also, we’ve prepared an especial reward. (missing comma; also, I believe the adjective here is more than ordinary)

page 020
panel 1
Homme du Feu: But… one day… it started… (missing ellipsis, alternatively, we could put “But… one day, it started…”, but I believe the ellipsis maintain a standard here.

page 026
panel 1
HdF: Have I been tricked?
HdF: Have I been betrayed?
HdF: Have I been deceived?
(verbal tense)

page 029
panel 1
Olympe: I’m sorry I kept secret that I was a gynoid. [This is problematic, as it is a relatively new noun, but it was created to correct a mistake. The Greek prefix andro refers to males, while gyno is supposed to refer to females (as in andrology/gynecology, for instance). I have no idea of the original Japanese text, but once Olympe is a female-like automaton…]
panel 3
Pissarro: This girl is a fairly old antique doll. There were lots of troubles repairing her. (punctuation)

page 030
panel 2
HdF: For your almightiness and the glorious république… (accentuation)

page 034
panel 1
Gerambo: Please, hear that! (missing comma)
crowd: Crush the Venusians!!! (plural noun)
panel 2
Gerambo: The truth is that this “coliseum” is a little empty. So, we request the audience… (punctuation; excessive preposition)

page 035
panel 2
Gerambo: Then, there is a condition… (missing comma)

page 036
panel 1
Gerambo: In one form or another, here is the opponent, the seed Venusian team, “the Genome Republic”… (structure; actually, I would like someone to confirm about the initial preposition)
panel 4
Hopper: …the planet Venus is extremely deprived of resources, but… (the adjective “scarce” sounds strange to me here)

page 037
panel 1
Hopper: Meanwhile, because of the Ladder Treaty, the limitations… (missing comma)
Hopper: It was when they started the development of bio-engineering, calling it “nanotechnology that does not use nanomachines”. (spelling; quotes, not parentheses)
panel 3
tagusi taxi/takoshi/takkushi - I cannot understand anything. I am completely lost here.
footnote:
A “object-creature”, this means a biological being that has only one purpose: to be used as a tool. (punctuation; conjunction, not preposition)
“Humpty Dumpty”: popular story for children, about a living egg that falls from the wall. A reference to its shape is made here. (structure)

page 038
panel 1
Gerambo: …République Vénus… (accentuation; something is missing in the text here)

page 039
panel 1
Taraba: I said that I alone am already enough. (What a sort of construction is that?)
panel 2
Toji: Let us not be careless! (this construction requires exclamation mark)

page 045
panel 2
Olympe: Master Pissarro, please, tell me. (missing comma)

page 050
panel 1
Pissarro: This time, it’s the bio-missiles. (missing comma; apostrophe; hyphen)

page 053
panel 4
Pissarro: Bio-gas beam “flambeur”!! (missing hyphen)

page 054
footnote: Their commonest use is to eat and swallow, as it is the case of certain spineless ones as the butterflies. (superlative; comma; clause)

page 057
panel 2
Taraba: Zuu gaa!Lo logré! (What is that?)

page 060
panel 3
HdF: Karatekas seem to be… (noun; verb)

page 061
panel 1
HdF: And eat at your heart’s content. (missing apostrophe)

page 068
panel 2
Pissarro: Alduína’s embryonic form is only 80cm. (no space, as it is an abbreviation)
panel 4
Pissarro: And, of course, with its… (missing comma)

page 075
panel 1
text: Bigorne’s self-severed tail (missing text)

page 084
footnote: …the karateka will never be the first to strike. (repeated verb)

page 086
panel 2
Pissarro: Those spores that have just been emitted by the thorn-cover… (missing hyphen; spelling)

page 089
panel 2
HdF: Are karatekas people who don’t even know how to be suspicious? Then, they are stupid!! (missing comma)

page 095
You should have used “poisonous plasma”. “Plasma poison” is a semantic absurd, man!!

page 103
panel 1
Pissarro: It’s neither the strongest nor the smartest of the species who survives… (verb)
Pissarro: It is the one who is the most adaptable to changes. (demonstrative pronoun; noun)
panel 3
Pissarro: “Tactless”! This is the antonym of “adaptation”… (punctuation)

page 105
panel 1
Pissarro: With the corrosion caused by poisonous plasma, his body is… (nomenclature; possessive)
panel 2
Pissarro: Solve that, Homme du Feu!! (missing comma; character’s name spelling)

page 111
panel 1
Pissarro: He wants to respond and demonstrate what he thinks… (missing pronoun)

page 127
panel 4
Hopper: Suddenly, Alduína looks like… (missing comma)

page 130
panel 1
Pissarro: Now, it’s similar to an enormous symbiont. (missing comma; wrong preposition)

page 145
panel 2
Pissarro: Do you really think that, by doing this, it will change your fate? (structure)
Pissarro: Even Homme du Feu will not be happy about this. (Is this construction correct? It sounds weird to me. I think it would be better to use Even Homme du Feu will be unhappy with this or Neither Homme du Feu will be happy with this. It would be great if Burning Angel could comment.)
panel 3
Olympe: Master Pissarro, you are not almighty. (spelling)

page 161
panel 2
Gerambo: He ripped off the shield generator and threw it on Toji, who was sent into deep space! (structure)

page 172
panel 2
Pissarro: Treat the genius gesigner Pissarro Crié as a cockroach? (character's name; structure)

page 178
panel 2
Pissarro: The rubus grows roots inside the target, which it destroys entirely… (verb; structure)

pages 186-187 must be joined

[Sergio Nova]

TargaryenX, would you take care of the last pages?

[Lemonlol]

but upscaling of phase 76, 78 (volumewise) might blur things

Don't upscale! Downscale but never upscale!
Only downscale phase 80 and 81.

pages 186-187 must be joined

There you go:

Pissarro Crié de Vouivre

Well, about that... It reminds me "Vouivre" has always sounded really weird to me.
In japanese, his name is "pisarokurie do vuivuru". I'm not sure if "e" is silent or not, but in french, if it really is silent, it sounds like "cri de vivre". Which would means "living's scream" (lit. "scream/shout of [to live]"). When a baby borns, the first thing he does is kind of shouting. That's the idea Pissarro's name comes from, I suppose.
If "e" is not silent, then it makes "crié de vivre", which means "shouted from living" or something like that (lit. "screamED/shoutED of [to live]"). It doesn't really make sense to me and I can't help on that one .

(By the way, if both translations sound weird in english, that's ok. It already sounds weird in french. It's a franponais.)

page 172
panel 2
Pissarro: Treat the genius gesigner Pissarro Crié as a cockroach? (character's name; structure)

Considering his fullname, wouldn't "Pissarro" alone be enough ?

[litchi master]

Well, about that... It reminds me "Vouivre" has always sounded really weird to me.
In japanese, his name is "pisarokurie do vuivuru". I'm not sure if "e" is silent or not, but in french, if it really is silent, it sounds like "cri de vivre". Which would means "living's scream" (lit. "scream/shout of [to live]"). When a baby borns, the first thing he does is kind of shouting. That's the idea Pissarro's name comes from, I suppose.
If "e" is not silent, then it makes "crié de vivre", which means "shouted from living" or something like that (lit. "screamED/shoutED of [to live]"). It doesn't really make sense to me and I can't help on that one .

Hi sorry to intrude on the translation topic, it's just that the word "Vouivre" does exist in French, it refers to a medieval monster a kind of snake. It 's quite a rare word and what is more it seems to refer to different creatures, the closest equivalent would be a wivern in English. However the French article on the subject is far more complete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyvern

[litchi master]

To sum it up a vouivre is a winged adder with a large garnet on the middle of its forehead, sometimes keeping an underground treasure. It lurks in swamps or by rivers and may lay down its gemstone on the floor while it is fishing thus making it possible for an audacious robber to get hold of it.
however it is different from a dragon because it is deprived of arms. it is sometimes said to have swine legs or to be able to turn into a beautiful woman.

I think it corresponds pissaro pretty well given that he himself like the monster is the result of parts of different organisms assembled together to form something new. The very principle of office of gesigner.
More over doesn't the emblem on his back look like a vouivre?it would go along with his two monsters
so in that case it would be Pissaro "vouivre/wivern scream"
maybe you already knew about this sorry if this is no news to you.

[Sergio Nova]

Well, about that... It reminds me "Vouivre" has always sounded really weird to me.

Vouivre is French for wyvern

Wyvern
[Folklore] A creature very similar to a dragon except it only has four limbs (2 wings, 2 hind legs) and is smaller in size. Usually the other aspects are the same, although wyverns are generally not characterized as breathing flame.
[Encyclopedia Mythica]


C'est une sorte de dragon ailé qui porte une escarboucle sur le front (contrairement au dragon, la vouivre ne possède qu'une paire d'ailes et pas de bras). Cet œil, une gigantesque pierre précieuse, est parfois caché dans les roseaux des berges d'une rivière ou d'un lac tandis que la vouivre y pêche, et peut être subtilisé par un voleur audacieux. Le reste du temps, la vouivre veille sur les trésors souterrains.
[Wikipedia]

The wyvern is printed in Pissarro's jacket.
Actually, I believe that his name should be written Cri de Vouivre (or Cry of Wyvern). If it is that, our text is wrong from the beginning.

[litchi master]

That's what I tend to think, in fact i thought you knew it, so I didn't tell until now. I was really surprised that lemonlol didn't know, the word IS unusual in French, in fact there are more people who know about wiverns than actually about vouivres and they are not numerous. I am always amazed at the extent of Kishiro's knowledge. I'd be glad to know where he gets his references from.

[Sam]

Actually, I believe that his name should be written Cri de Vouivre (or Cry of Wyvern). If it is that, our text is wrong from the beginning.

Sorry to interrupt you. In the french version of vol. 12 the name has been translated into "Pissaroclié de Vouivre". I know that there is always a probleme with the "r" an "l" letters in the translations. Anyway, the name "Pissaro Crié de Vouivre" sounds more like a french aristocratic name than "Cri de Vouivre" which is some kind of an explicit translation contrarily to "Crié" which is a little more ambiguus and then more "sang bleu" at the end!
The first name is then "Pissaro Crié" or "Pissarocrié" and the name must be "de Vouivre".

[Sergio Nova]

If I understood it, you do approve of Pissarro Crié de Vouivre as his name. Is that? If so, in the end we are correct.

[Lemonlol]

Nope, I didn't know about "Vouivre" being a "Wyvern" in french .

Anyway, "Vouivre" seems a little hard to believe, but it's also the name of his company ("Biovouivre", as in p139, which I though was edited to be like that). So, yeah, "Vouivre" would be better. Although the overall meaning "Cri/Crié de Vouivre" just blows my mind...

As for "Cri/Crié", I can't help you. My french knowledge is of no use for that one .

[litchi master]

"de vouivre" is absolutely certain
"cri or crié de vivre" does not make sense.
Now, French Aristocratic names may be quite complicated and include several words.
so "cri de vouivre" is not impossible
and where would the first name "pissarocrié" come from?
the full name is "cri or crié de vouivre", the real question is to have or not to have the accent,i 'd priviledge "cri" because of the meaning
"crié de vouivre" sounds like nobility it's true but the other does too, but "crié" seems to be closer to the Japanese.
so in the end one has to choose between meaning and sound.