Quantum Physics

[jeb]

HI,
Long time reader, first time poster, from France.
I am taking this opportunity to say a big and well deserved thank you to the whole staff from Crazy Yakan for providing us with BA goodness over the year. I may actually have fonder memories of imagining the first LO chapter by reading the fully textual translation with descriptions and a few pictures on Ripper's anime than those I have of finally seeing Kishiro's new drawing style.

well, to the object of my post.
In the Avril edition of The Economist i stumbled upon a review of "Vlatko Vedral - Decoding Reality: The Universe as Quantum Information", and even though i haven't read the stuff yet i can't help but feel that at least a few hardcore LO fans here will have the same smile i had while reading the summary:

"For a physicist, all the world's information. The Universe and its workings are the ebb and flow of information. We are all transient patterns of information, passing on the recipe for our basic forms to future generations using a four-letter digital code called DNA.

In this engaging and mind-stretching account, Vlatko Vedral considers some of the deepest questions about the Universe and considers the implications of interpreting it in terms of information. He explains the nature of information, the idea of entropy, and the roots of this thinking in thermodynamics. He describes the bizarre effects of quantum behaviour - effects such as 'entanglement', which Einstein called 'spooky action at a distance' and explores cutting edge work on the harnessing quantum effects in hyperfast quantum computers, and how recent evidence suggests that the weirdness of the quantum world, once thought limited to the tiniest scales, may reach into the macro world.

Vedral finishes by considering the answer to the ultimate question: where did all of the information in the Universe come from? The answers he considers are exhilarating, drawing upon the work of distinguished physicist John Wheeler. The ideas challenge our concept of the nature of particles, of time, of determinism, and of reality itself.

Vlatko Vedral studied undergraduate theoretical physics at Imperial College London, where he also received a PhD for his work on 'Quantum Information Theory of Entanglement'. Since June 2009, Vedral has moved to Oxford as Professor of Quantum Information Science. Throughout his career he has held a number of visiting professorships at different international institutions. He has published more than 130 research papers and has written two textbooks. He has written for popular science journals and major daily newspapers, as well as doing extensive radio programmes and television interviews."

Quantum theory, computers, entropy and thermodynamic applied to determinism, suddenly i feel a lot like eating flan. If someone read it before I do please share your impression.

[Sergio Nova]

Is it possible to scan the article? Or do you know any way of downloading the magazine?

[HumanRage]

HI,
...
Quantum theory, computers, entropy and thermodynamic applied to determinism, suddenly i feel a lot like eating flan.

this just made my day

and sure, entropy is a bitch... universe is basically decaying from the ignition, and will end dark and colding... in xxx billion years

main issue is the dark matter, WE, as the "clear matter" are only 5-15% of the universe... we may be side effects of the "dark reality" which is the actual real deal of the universe

on a sidenote, looks like kishiro is up to date on the subject !

[Sergio Nova]

I tried to add a link to the PDF edition, but it was not accepted. The system accused me of leeching.

[kvhokuto]

Gunnm, specifically gallys link with melchizedek is what got me interested in entanglement.

[moooV]

I've read that article about a month ago in translation to russian (I didn't have a link to an original article, and was lazy to search) and I've had associations with GLO myself.

However, it's far from it - _AS FAR AS I REMEMBER_ (and I'm not good at physics - that's all just in the eye of the beholder, we don't have a right to speculate about it at all), what the author suggests is that our universe is a hologram, and so-called 'entangled' particles, which change their state simultaneously no matter of a distance between them (the communication speed is far beyond the speed of light - in fact, it's infinite), are in fact just one entity in a hologram space, which just appears to us as two separate particles. Also, there is quite an interesting statement that the time has no visible reasons to go forward, except the laws of thermodynamics. What it means, is that if there were no thermodynamical laws, time could go in any direction - backward or forward, whithout any objections.

I think, there is absolutely nothing for YK to do with it, the theory was presented to the public about a year ago (as far as I know) - YK couldn't possibly get influenced by it. However, I don't exclude the possiblity that YK has influenced the author of this theory.

[jeb]

Still haven't read it so I don't know if it's the same thing we're talking about here but it sounds like it.
However the summary I posted is that of a whole book on the subject not an article (It's likely the guy did dozens of conference and article on the subject before writing the said book however...I will google him later,lol) .

I only found an audio edition of it on a private torrent tracker, no pdf yet to see what's it's all about, sorry.

And yeah, the link with Melchizedeck transforming Gally in a modern day Sybil and humanity rising from its ashes guided by a quantum computer is what I also thought about reading about entanglement in quantum physics, guilty as charge call me fanboy.

[Sergio Nova]

Finally I succeded.
http://www.easy-share.com/1910181572/Th ... 010-04.PDF

[Cailon]

Since you talked about quantum theory and the universe and stuff (forgive me my ignorance^^), maybe you guys can help me. I always wondered:
It is clear that time goes by slower, the faster you go. Now the milkyway is part of the Local Cluster which is part of the again much bigger Virgo supercluster. This cluster moves through the universe away from the point of the Big Bang. I don't know the speed but let's say its pretty damn fast. Within the Local Cluster, our galaxy spins in circles. Earth is pretty far out so we experience the full throttle of this spin. Then earth moves around the sun in one year plus it has a day-night-rotation. So all in all we're moving pretty fast in any kind of direction, therefore time should move significantly slower for us, compared to a person standing still in the universe. Or am I mistaken?
Now, if we say, the universe is roughly 14 bill. years old, is it "our" time or is it "universe" time? And if it's "our" time only, could it be that the universe's existence is only a matter of actual minutes but because we're always at some kind of Event Horizont the final moments last 14 billion years for us? And what does quantum physics have to say to all this?^^

[bellatrix]

Now the milkyway is part of the Local Cluster which is part of the again much bigger Virgo supercluster. This cluster moves through the universe away from the point of the Big Bang. I don't know the speed but let's say its pretty damn fast.

Just a clarification: the cluster isn't really moving through the universe away from the point, it's that space is expanding away from the singularity of the Big Bang.
This is not to say that the cluster doesn't move through the universe, just that this movement away is driven by a change in the nature of space.

Also, generally quantum mech doesn't deal with things on the scales of universes/galaxies. If you can get it to do that, you would totally win a prize for coming up with a grand unification theory (GUT).

N.B. I'm severely sleep-deprived and more than a little jet-lagged, so I hope my clarifications make sense and aren't totally delusional. I'll try to think about your post, Callon, in the morning and formulate a proper response.

[HumanRage]

your answer is good actually

cailon :
"speed" when talking about cosmic level, is a non sense because of spacetime dilatation, indeed. but we do have a motion vs a point of reference, which is our solar system, our galaxy, our cluster and the one on top of it.
factual proof is we discovered ourselves lucky : voyagerI probe was sent BEHIND us (not on purpose, at first it was to get it out of the ecliptic, to see the solar system "from the side"), so it took a picture of the whole solar system (aka "solar system portrait" ) . they got it because it got away way too fast, while no fuel left for years (only the plutonium cell) so no acceleration : we sent it behind the global solar system trajectory (orbit ? ), and it will leave the heilopause by the "rear"

shit is now 17 bil km away (was 7 is 2004), which is 30 lighthours, getting faster and faster and will get out of the solar system but will be part of the milky way and will follow right ahead... but what kind of "speed" is that ????? space is bent from speed, mass, energy (which is quite the same thing when you put the zoom to the max, either in or out), and when you input too large numbers in the theories, everything mix up and this is called the relativity effect. but everyone here should already know that, by mere curiosity and enthusiasm

what's my point ? galaxies are soooooooooo far away that you can't measure a speed between pegasus NGC 7331 and us, we don't even know "where" is what !? and btw, 1@1000mph +1@1000mph around a reference is not the same as 2000 or 1000 around a reference. could be long to explain but again, applying the atomic clock experiment to the galaxy level or above is just... trying to compare a fine grain of dust and the mnt everest, times 1 billion (add or minus a billion, that's for your quantum question)

so cailon, your reasoning just can't cut it, because of the scale : day to day logic is irrelevant, things are happenings on 20-figures numbers on all axis of 4, 7, or 11 dimensionals "graphs", and this is way beyond us, except when we'll be able to buit warpdrives or stargates but the numbers themselves put the abstraction level required very high : at our scale, everything is sooooooooooo long and slooooooooooowwwww and yet with the proper mental gymnastic, so casual to discuss about

up to now, current promises are that everything in universe is vibe (that we already knew) and that there is plenty of micro thingies vibrating to create that waves or matter (depending of density and frequency/song/whatever). at such, if you can make the dark matter resonate to do what you want you could really well build a beefsteack out of thin air, or warp a volume to a distant star, with the appropriate vibration harmony resonnance and power or shit (this is as far as i can stretch the current theoric developments and hopes of the fundameental quantum researches communities )


hope it helps

[Cailon]

It actually does, thanks a lot bellatrix and HumanRage

This question was bothering me for some time, now I see that I kinda took the wrong direction from the very beginning^^ No really, I'm very fascinated with the universe and all that (as everybody is if he just looks up at night) - but I was never really good at math or physics, that's why I ask stupid questions like that. I tried some books but usually it gets too weird around midway :/ Can you suggest an easy-to-understand book that deals with this? Maybe "universe in a nutshell"...?

[HumanRage]

unfortunately, without any mathematic degree it's quite impossible to proper grasp the whole thing, but when people try to explain with easy figures (like i tried), one can at least get a mental image of what's going on

actually, i follow some science/space enthusiasts forums (futura sciences, but it's french...), and from time to time i can find a good explanation (= 3+ screens of text, with funny notes long the text) and then i know a little more


there is so many domains i would like to have a 8 years degree in... Enough to busy myself for a thousand years, and i'm sure that would not be the end

[bellatrix]

Cailon, I took astro and math and physics in college (first two years, and I'm now an English major). I mean yeah you need a degree for some things, but the questions you ask are good questions. Really.

If you're interested in expansion and stuff, the easiest way you can do an experiment on it is to blow up a balloon. Seriously. Think about the surface of the balloon as it's expanding, and that's kind of what happens to the scale of space. It's the same balloon, you describe points on it the same way, but the distances are bigger.
Also, I find that if I try to learn from a book, unless it a) starts from the very basics and leads me to the end, or b) works off stuff I already know intimately, I usually have too much trouble trying to understand its frame of reference to be able to understand what it's saying. If you can, go talk to an (astro)physicist or go to a museum or something. Talk to people, do stuff with your hands (as in experiments, not ....), think about things in a non-verbal way. Go look at some Dali paintings, the one(s?) with the melting clocks.

[Batou]

Hi there, before you memorize all that what was written here, i have a few corrections to make:

It is clear that time goes by slower, the faster you go.

no, thats not the case: if you observe someone with a speed v realtive to you, his(!) time (e.g a watch he is holding that you can see) is slowed by a factor of sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) [c=lightspeed]. interestingly this phenomenon is symmetrical: if he observes you he will see the same dilatation for you(relativity). i guess you are thinking about the twin paradox, but in this case the difference in personal experienced time is caused by acceleration processes or in other words: one of them has to change his speed! in this way he breaks the symmetry.

what's my point ? galaxies are soooooooooo far away that you can't measure a speed between pegasus NGC 7331 and us, we don't even know "where" is what !?

thats kind of right and wrong at the same time: you actually can measure the redshift and interpret it as a dopplershift caused by motion, in this way you can actually calculate the realative "speed" of this object to us. by the way that's what hubble thought.
and if you look at e.g. a supernova there, it will last significantly longer than the same in our galaxy(->time dilatation). this is not really correct also, but if you look at it in this way you will get the same results as if the space is expanding.

sorry for my bad english...