Alita's brain chip

[kamugin]

I have a question: when Alita's human brain was changed for a bio chip? In the GLO vol. 1 we see her "making of a cyborg" and her human brain is there. When Nova have accessed her body again to change her brain? Or this was a Yukito's continuity flaw?

[moooV]

We weren't shown the period between her construction and awakening. Do you remember "charging complete, recognize active"? Right before that, I think.

[kamugin]

We weren't shown the period between her construction and awakening. Do you remember "charging complete, recognize active"? Right before that, I think.

Maybe... But I think Yukito had the idea of the brain switch a bit later. Then it was too late to change the first chapter. Also in the vol. 1 there were two ideas he gave up without further explanation: her ability to change her body colour and the "bug" that was causing a delay between her thinking and her actual movements.

[Gatekpr]

The color changing has been used in other forms, most notably the damascus blades that she spawns on her arms. And the "bug" was used in her fight against Vilma in the tournament, which was her last major fight before getting destroyed aside from Tzykrow. The "bug" is, as far as we know, either psychological or, has been speculated, a quantum wave collapse.

Also, there is a span of a year between Alita's death and Alita's awakening. The brain could've been switched out anywhere in that time frame.

[kamugin]

The color changing has been used in other forms, most notably the damascus blades that she spawns on her arms. And the "bug" was used in her fight against Vilma in the tournament, which was her last major fight before getting destroyed aside from Tzykrow. The "bug" is, as far as we know, either psychological or, has been speculated, a quantum wave collapse.

Also, there is a span of a year between Alita's death and Alita's awakening. The brain could've been switched out anywhere in that time frame.

No, the time span between the creation of her imaginos body, while Nova was talking to Roscoe, and her awakening alone in the lab is just of some hours or a day at least. Perhaps the newer version of Nova, after Roscoe killed the original, decided to change her brain during that time.

But you can't say that her creation of arm blades is the same thing as her changing the colour of her body, to me the two aren't the same ability. Also the decoys she used against Vilma aren't the same as that "bug". Only when she was almost killed by Vilma the illusion was the same, but that occurred because she was frightened, not because some flaw of the new body.

[MrFaber]

I didn't check, but i'm pretty sure that one of the Novas reveals gally that he first recreated her brain from the bits he had, then the imaginos body around it, then he operated the imaginos body itself and removed alita's brain before of her awakening. And that must have happened sometime before nova revealed to Salemites their true condition.

So far, for the whole Last Order, Alita has been an android and no longer a cyborg.

[Cailon]

We can define the time span even more. Novas brain chip performs a memory backup on the nanobots floating around everytime he sleeps.
So 8 am: Nova wakes up. 9 am: flan time. 10 am: some warm-up brain surgeries on living test subject. 11 am: exchanging Alitas brain with a chip. 12 am: lunch time, 1 pm: informing the inhabitants of Tiphares that every adult has but a chip in his head, 2 pm: taking a little walk, 3 pm: getting killed by Rosco. The nanobots start to rebuilt the "8-am-Nova".
When Alita sees the butchered Nova she says that the body is 4 or 5 days old.

[kamugin]

When Alita sees the butchered Nova she says that the body is 4 or 5 days old.

You're right, I missed that when I was reviewing GLO 1! Too much time for Nova, or one of his clones, to play with Alita's brain before she woke up =P

Now I have a hypothesis: I think at some moment before the end on the story, Alita's human brain will be fused with her actual brain chip the same way as Trindade's brain is formed. What you people think?

Since Alita's last ressurection she is too cool about her missing brain. Imagine what Super Nova may be doing with her brain meanwhile, dammit! X(

[moooV]

Imagine she will have two Super Nova's ships and three Trinidad's in the head also.

[Sergio Nova]

Imagine she will have two Super Nova's ships and three Trinidad's in the head also.

Are you the herald of the Apocalypse?

[kamugin]

Imagine she will have two Super Nova's ships and three Trinidad's in the head also.

Are you the herald of the Apocalypse?

She doesn't need such crap inside her head absolutely! Also her brain would look like a tiled floor with so many chips inside =P

[moooV]

Are you the herald of the Apocalypse?

Haven't you still noticed?

[Gatekpr]

The color changing has been used in other forms, most notably the damascus blades that she spawns on her arms. And the "bug" was used in her fight against Vilma in the tournament, which was her last major fight before getting destroyed aside from Tzykrow. The "bug" is, as far as we know, either psychological or, has been speculated, a quantum wave collapse.

Also, there is a span of a year between Alita's death and Alita's awakening. The brain could've been switched out anywhere in that time frame.

No, the time span between the creation of her imaginos body, while Nova was talking to Roscoe, and her awakening alone in the lab is just of some hours or a day at least. Perhaps the newer version of Nova, after Roscoe killed the original, decided to change her brain during that time.

But you can't say that her creation of arm blades is the same thing as her changing the colour of her body, to me the two aren't the same ability. Also the decoys she used against Vilma aren't the same as that "bug". Only when she was almost killed by Vilma the illusion was the same, but that occurred because she was frightened, not because some flaw of the new body.

The main property of the Imaginos Body is its ability to change structure. Color change, blade growth, and another other bodily changes fall under that. Sure, she doesn't really change color much anymore, but the main ability is still being used. I was also referring to Alita's hesitation when fighting Vilma, not the illusions. Both of the issues are generally the same. Alita thought she moved during her fight with Vilma, just as she thought she moved with the security robot. There may be a bug, sure, but it was more than likely just her not being used to her body at that time. Note that it hasn't happened since her fight with Vilma which, as you said, was her freezing up in fear.

[Cailon]

Btw, I'm missing a brain chips, any help?

First, Nova exchanges Alitas brain with a chip (let's call him "Nova 1.0"). He is killed by Rosco. Rosco takes the two chips from "Nova 1.0's" head and stomach.
Second, Nova is rebuild and accompanies Alita to Tiphares ("Nova 2.0"). Alita obtains the 2 brain chips of "Nova 1.0". Afaik, one is used to create "Porta-Nova" ( = "Nova 1.1a"), but what about the other chip ( = "Nova 1.1b")?
Third, while Nova is in Tiphares, the nanobots start to rebuilt him, cause he's not present anymore: the birth of "Nova 3.0".

So overall we have 3 Novas and 6 brain chips.
"Tiphares-Nova" becomes "Super-Nova" ( = "Nova 2.1") He has 4 chips in total. Where do those 2 additional chips come from? Simple extra RAM, previously empty, or was it a copy of Nova brain chip? (I forgot that)
"Nova 1.1a" (Porta-Nova) was destroyed by "Nova 2.1" (Super-Nova), but still one chip remains (i.e. Nova 1.1b) - where is it? Or did I miss something?

[kamugin]

"Nova 1.1a" (Porta-Nova) was destroyed by "Nova 2.1" (Super-Nova), but still one chip remains (i.e. Nova 1.1b) - where is it? Or did I miss something?

Indeed there is one missing... But who cares? Nova is such a cockroach, the more are killed, more they appear!

The two chips inside super Nova skull means his madness is running on a dual core processor now. The other two inside his belly (if they exist), are just backup.

I'm more worried about Alita's kawaii human brain whereabouts than she herself!

[Megan_Gale]

Is it just me or is there a metaphor to be read about the exchange of one's brain for the loss of innocence?

It's applicable for the Tiphareans, it's demonstrated in a perverted form by Trinidad's assimilation of Vares, inasmuch as it parallels the birth of his moral relativism. Even Zekka, one-note as he is, finds himself compromised by discarding it along with the rest of his human form, and is disturbed when he has to fight an opponent copy of himself that's basically an innocent.

If I'm right, the message seems to be that the "selling out" of your birth-brain is a Faustian phenomenon that can cause the erosion, if not complete downfall, of one's integrity... sometimes their whole ego. This is not without exception, as we see that some adult Tiphareans were able to absorb the trauma of the ordeal with grace and maturity. It's like a metaphor for puberty, or the compromises one makes to survive as an adult. It also ties in with Alita's personal growth saga, for her to discover, shatteringly, that she's been a grown-up for longer than she realized. And then for her to get cynical and cold.

Ooh, if we accept that Kishiro was directly referencing the baby boom generation in the Tiphares scenario, (and we sure could if we want to consider the Scrapyard a parallel to outsourced labor, a phenomenon they metastasized in the 1980s and 1990s) we might also extrapolate the AR-Series as representatives of their children. Born into a debauched circumstance (with brain chips), forced to "grow up too soon" (born as adults) and live with no direction or future except for whatever they carve out for themselves... which is, in the case of 90% of them, dissolution. Except Sechs, Kishiro's golden boy who stands, at this point, on an equal narrative footing with Alita. Sechs is that rarest of human animals who wants to make sure he leaves his mark on an indifferent universe, aaaand that's what nearly all of Kishiro's good guys have been about since the start.

...WOW! What an exciting realization. I love this forum.

[Sergio Nova]

Very good text, Megan_Gale. Your interpretation is interesting.

[kamugin]

Is it just me or is there a metaphor to be read about the exchange of one's brain for the loss of innocence?
... ... ...
...WOW! What an exciting realization. I love this forum.

That was mind twisting =)

Many forms of mind control and freedom absence are envisioned by scientific fiction when the authors describe some kind of totalitarian society. Replacing a human being brain for some kind of computer is the most extreme I've ever seen, the very idea is terrifying. The lost of innocence may be a valid analogy when we think about the Thiphareans, but I don't think it is valid in Alita's case since she remained the same, regardless losing her human brain. For Zekka that step was just to improve his performance as a warrior. The biggest question involved is what defines a person? It is his/hers body or his/hers memories? Since I'm not a religious person, and Yukito probably isn't too, I don't believe in the existence of a soul. To him it seems to be that only the person memories are his/hers essence. And in such an advanced society where memories can be copied as easy as computer data, people can be cloned or even replaced by machines.

I would trade my human body for an imaginos body anytime, but I would be hesitant if I have to replace my brain for a chip. Our self can't be reduced to mere data, our memories may be connected to our flesh in a way we are unable to suspect yet.

[ChaosConfetti]

We weren't shown the period between her construction and awakening. Do you remember "charging complete, recognize active"? Right before that, I think.

Maybe... But I think Yukito had the idea of the brain switch a bit later. Then it was too late to change the first chapter. Also in the vol. 1 there were two ideas he gave up without further explanation: her ability to change her body colour and the "bug" that was causing a delay between her thinking and her actual movements.

The "bug" delay in her movements was foreshadowing Alita being an android.

Recall, when Alita asks the repair terminal about it, he speculates that it's similar to the "phantom limb" syndrome that amputees experience. Having one's psyche uploaded into a computer and then installed in a body might be consider analogous to a full body amputation

[kamugin]

The "bug" delay in her movements was foreshadowing Alita being an android.

Recall, when Alita asks the repair terminal about it, he speculates that it's similar to the "phantom limb" syndrome that amputees experience. Having one's psyche uploaded into a computer and then installed in a body might be consider analogous to a full body amputation.

Interesting theory, but you should elaborate it more clearly. Alita was a cyborg for almost her whole life, so she shouldn't be suffering this aftereffect so late. Then that was caused because her human brain was replaced for a bio chip and so she wasn't fully adapted to her new condition yet. If this is the case, Yukito was giving us a clue about her brain replacement!

[ChaosConfetti]

Interesting theory, but you should elaborate it more clearly. Alita was a cyborg for almost her whole life, so she shouldn't be suffering this aftereffect so late. Then that was caused because her human brain was replaced for a bio chip and so she wasn't fully adapted to her new condition yet. If this is the case, Yukito was giving us a clue about her brain replacement!

That's basically what I was going for. I probably should have spent a bit more time explaining it.