NEWS FLASH: KODANSHA LICENSES BAA:LO FOR NA

[NKato]

I am dancing for joy. I'm glad that Viz Media was willing to listen to reason. Viz isn't such a bad company after all. What may have helped them transfer the license may have been the fact that it was not a very high-grossing graphic novel series compared to the likes of Bleach and Naruto.

Volume 16 will be published by Kodansha Comics!

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... anza-manga

WHOO!

[Sam]

December even!!

Seriously, 8 months to wait!!!!

[Sergio Nova]

Volume 16 will be published by Kodansha Comics!

Honestly, I cannot understand the surprise. Viz represents Shueisha, while Kodansha Comics represents Kodansha.
Once the original publishers have changed, even a hypothetical Serbian publisher will depend on the negotiations/decisions of the new publisher. It is that simple.
If Viz made any favor, it was not to create a juridical headache with the absurd nomenclature invented.

[AR-99]

No real surprises here given the switch from Shueisha to Kodansha. Even though the original Gunnm was one of Viz's earliest manga titles they have to go along with the parent. Thanks for staying on top of the story. Now Kodansha gets to decide which names to use. And as with many things with Gunnm, we will have to wait.

[NKato]

I'm very curious as to what Kodansha will do with the translation. Will they stick with Viz's version or change it?

Also, some people here seem to be forgetting that the United States is a lawyer-crazy country. I was half-expecting Viz to fight tooth and claw for control over the license.

[Sergio Nova]

I'm very curious as to what Kodansha will do with the translation. Will they stick with Viz's version or change it?

Also, some people here seem to be forgetting that the United States is a lawyer-crazy country. I was half-expecting Viz to fight tooth and claw for control over the license.

Nah! Viz belongs to Shueisha, right? The publishers have already combined everything in Japan. Last Order is being republished by Kodansha, but Hyper Future Vision is being republished by Shueisha. Their American counterparts are supposed to listen to what the headquarters decided and say amen. The only question is if Kodansha Comics will also republish Last Order in the USA or if the first 15 volumes will remain with Viz. I do believe it will be the second case, simply because the selling in English does not justify new editions that much.

[AR-99]

I agree with Sergio. My guess is that Kodansha can start publishing LO Vol. 1-15 and the original Gunnm after the Shueisha/Viz license term ends. What they would probably then do at that point is retranslate using their own people, otherwise they would need to license the original translation and adaptation that Viz did. In fact for Vol. 16 I would expect them to go back to the original names like Gally and Zalem since Alita and Tiphares are essentially Viz's own adaptations.

And while the US is litigation crazy, it doesn't make sense to fight over something in which you will probably lose money. Because of their Shueisha ownership Viz already has the rights to publish Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece, which are much more profitable manga and media franchises for them.

[NKato]

Kodansha USA has responded to my email. They were unable to answer two of my questions, but they answered this:

I'm not able to answer questions 1 and 3, but I can tell you that will be using the Alita name for both the main character and the series.

[Martin]

Am I the only person who thinks that at this point, where Alita is not this hot thing any more and really hasn't been a hot thing for probably about 10 years, that there is no value in calling it "Battle Angel Alita: Last Order" as opposed to calling it "Gun Dream: Last Order". So satisfying to see that was the Panzer Kunst secret salute.

Ever since I found out that that is what it was originally called, I thought that was the coolest thing ever.

I would even like to see her called Gally and whatever other name changes have been introduced. So much has changed in manga translation since this comic started getting exported. It is funny for BAA because it was so big in the mid to late 90s and the story led to such a place (with the ouroborous) there was a great *wink wink* nod to the name changes.

Honestly, considering BAA has one of the biggest boldest Ret-cons ever...what is a little name changing

[Sergio Nova]

Ever since I found out that that is what it was originally called, I thought that was the coolest thing ever.

Never! No editor would change the title of a publication after it was released.
1. It is not commercial.
2. The readership will protest.
3. It will generate confusion.

If simply changing Spider-Man's uniform color resulted in a nightmare to Marvel Comics, what you suggest would result in a revolt, or even something worse.

[Lemonlol]

Slightly off topic question...

What are the differences between the Shueisha's edition and the Kodansha's edition ? Is there new pages ? Something else ?

[Sergio Nova]

The only difference I noticed is that volume 16 has no omake, but volume 17 has the omake back and also some technical references (well, they seemed technical references to me ).

Edit. Excuse me. You referred to the Japanese editions of Last Order.
Well, Shueisa's has 204 pages, while Kodansha's has 336. And someone here had commented that Kodansha's version has less volumes than Shueisa's.

[Lemonlol]

So... do they just put more chapter per volume or do they add some special stuff ? Any idea ?

[nick15]

I'd hate to resurrect this old post, but I'd like to point out a few things.

Several manga properties have since been transferred to the Kodansha Comics brand, particularly Akira and Ghost in the Shell; BAA:LO is not the first and certainly won't be the last series to be transferred like this. However, it is of note that the Kondansha versions of Akira and GitS are the EXACT SAME versions as their previous (in this case, Dark Horse) versions, simply with the "Kondansha Comics" logo on the spine (etc). In fact, I remember being initially confused by this, thinking that maybe Dark Horse was bought out or something.

I thus suspect that, as part of the licensing agreement, the original Japanese owners of the manga--whether it's the original publisher or the artist/writer themselves--also own the translations and all derivative artwork (layout designs, back cover blurbs, etc) and have right-of-access to the physical translated documents, and thus are free to use that translation as they see fit no matter where the license goes (at least in the country it was made for). In turn, I assume that most--if not all--owners prefer to stick with what already exists instead of spending the time, energy and money to deal with and create a new translation from scratch (unless it's to replace a considerably egregious translation)... and thus, Kodansha's Akira and GitS is the exact same version used by Dark Horse.

Therefore, I'm sure the Kodansha Comics version of Last Order will use the exact same layout and script used by Viz, simply because--I assume--Kishiro owns the rights to them anyways and can take it with him where ever he goes. Maybe even Fred Burke will continue his duties for consistency's sake (assuming he's been freelance all this time, or Viz is willing to release him to Kodansha). And just like all the various idiosyncrasies of the translated Akira and GitS that were carried over from the Dark Horse versions, I'm sure the Kodansha BAA:LO will keep everything from the Viz versions as well. Besides, even Yukitopia has referred to their English names by their Viz renames, so I'm sure that, as far as Kishiro's concerned, Alita IS her (English) name and there's no point in changing it.

TL;DR: I would be surprised if the Kodansha BAA:LO would be something COMPLETELY different from the Viz version.

[HumanRage]

can we send money directly to kishiro and make those editors/distributors die of starvation ? that would solve all the problems for everyone at once

[Sam]

From the french point of view, the new editions of Gunnm last order will be out beginning of august. But the worst thing ever is that first, the cover and the the number of pages are completely different (see link http://www.glenatmanga.com/gunnm-last-o ... 490627.htm) and second, they apparently expect to release a "perfect" version which is actually the kodansha version...

[nick15]

can we send money directly to kishiro and make those editors/distributors die of starvation ? that would solve all the problems for everyone at once

An adroit suggestion, but... money talks, BS walks. Most importantly, we don't have a publisher with access to an (inter)national distribution system, nor the money to get it hire one or build one ourselves... but Viz/Kodansha does. That's the whole reason why publishers like the RIAA and so forth got as big as they have, simply because of "what, you're gonna develop, publish and distribute it all YOURSELF? Haha, good luck!" Despite modern internet distribution and P2P networks, their argument is still very true today.

I still remember how UNLIKELY it was to get manga and anime back in the 80's and early 90's anyways, so I'm happy that they're being released AT ALL, even if the publishers make slight changes to the series (name changes, for example).

Other points to consider should anyone SERIOUSLY consider getting the license for translating (etc) the series (spoiler'd so you can skip the following rant if you want to):

Spoiler:

If we somehow manage to publish it ourselves... we would also have to address how much we should change to help add its appeal to non-Japanese readers, as well as keep existing readers. Consider, even if names like Tiphares and Alita weren't their original names, changing them back to Zalem and Gally may prove troublesome... apart from those readers who don't give two craps about their Japanese names (as to them, it's always been "Tiphares" and "Alita") and thus would feel alienated by the changes, it also seems as if Kishiro himself has accepted those names and thus treats them as their official--and thus artist intended--names in English... changing them back to Zalem and Gally would actually go AGAINST the artist's intent.

I'm sure everyone here knows this, but translating anything into another language--such as from Japanese to English--almost always require the translators to focus more on the Function of what's being said and not the Form. "Domo arigato" may mean "thank you", but the literal translation is something like "very indebted" (right?)... therefore, translators focus more on it's Functional meaning--to give appreciation to someone for what they've done--than it's Form--to specifically point out that they are literally in their debt. Another example is with the Motorballer whose Japanese name was "カラシニコフ"... should we have kept it as "Karishinikofu" as it was written in Japanese (its "Form"), or change it back to "Kalashnikov", which was what the name was supposed to be to begin with (its "Function")? Consider that Viz went with the Form translations, and thus we have "Karashnikoff" and not "Kalashnikov".

I thus feel we should accept these kinds of changes when it comes to translating a series... that is, no matter if we choose a "Form" or "Function" name, it won't appease everyone; there are going to be those who prefer "Karashnikoff" because it's a transliteration of its Japanese name, and then there will be the ones who prefer "Kalashnikov" because that's what it was supposed to be. It thus likewise draw into question all the other names and changes made by translators: is changing Gally to Alita and Zalem to Tiphares actually adhering to the artist's intent or not? I mean, what if Kishiro chose those names ONLY because they're foreign-sounding and thus "sound cool and mysterious" to Japanese readers? Thus, wouldn't "Alita" and "Tiphares" provide that same function to English readers, simply because "Gally" sounds like "Garry" (and thus is too common) and "Salem/Zalem" is a far-from-foreign-sounding to English-speaking readers? .... Change is just a part of translating a series from one language to another... otherwise, we might as well learn to read it in Japanese if we wanted to completely preserve the "artist's intent".

BASICALLY: if we wanted to publish the story ourselves to the degree that Viz and Kodansha has, then I have a feeling that we'd essentially continue to do everything that Viz/Fred Burke has done with its English translation. I think deviating from that path would create a mess of problems that I don't think we are in the position or authority to create. You can argue that we shouldn't have gone down that path to begin with, but pointing that out now won't help anything. Consider, changing it back to Gally and Zalem may make the same kinds of assumptions about Kishiro's intent as did changing it from Gally to Alita. I thus don't think it'll solve any problems, or that there will be a net gain of "solved problems". .... Now I'm POSITIVE all this has already been explained in the forums already, but I felt that it needed reminding to anyone willing to read this rant.

Just call me Captain Buzzkill.... I also apologize for the length of the above rant; that's why I hid it behind a spoiler to save you guys the trouble in case you hate reading walls of text...