Official NA tables of contents?

[Erigu]

Hi there,

I've been trying to correct / complete some Wikipedia articles relating to the series for quite some time now, but I'm still looking for some bits of info, namely the tables of contents of the official North American volumes of Battle Angel Alita: Last Order (i.e. volumes 1 to 15 of the Viz Media edition, and volumes 16 to 19 of the Random House one... I'd also be interested in the tables of contents of the five Omnibus volumes).
Since I'm not living in an English-speaking country, that's not something I can check for myself all that easily, so I was wondering if some of you could help me out. Legible pictures of those tables of contents would be perfect.

Thank you in advance if you're willing to take the time to help with this!

[Sergio Nova]

If you want info about the series, you have the Wiki [http://wiki.rippersanime.info/tiki-index.php] and you may even download it in a glossary format [http://www.rippersanime.info/index.php?page=Gunnm].

As to the official table of contents:

1. The chapters names are changed in Viz/Kodansha Comics editions, that is, the official translator Lillian Olsen loves to changes them all (do not ask me why);
2. As far as I am aware, there is no digital version (licensed or not) of Viz/Kodansha Comics editions, so…

[Erigu]

Oh, I'm fairly knowledgeable about the series itself, don't worry! Been reading it since the early 90s. ^^

And I don't believe there's a digital version of the series, indeed (it would have been a lot more convenient for me, since the tables of contents generally show up in free previews). Which is why I'm looking for people who own the official, physical North American comics.

[Erigu]

I'm looking for people who own the official, physical North American comics.

So, er... Nobody, really? ^^;
Even if you don't own the entire collection, every little bit would help a lot (except for the table of contents of volume 3 of the Viz Media edition: I found that one).

Sergio Nova, you said the official translator changed the titles (although I'm not sure what you meant by that exactly: changed them from what?), so maybe you could help me out, for example?

Sorry to insist; it's just that I've been trying to maintain / complete that episode list for years now, and that's really the last hurdle...

[Sergio Nova]

The problem of changing titles starts becoming serious in volume 8:

phase Ripper's title
44 Point of no return I. Alita
45 Point of no return II. Caerula
46 Choice
47 Innocence that deserved to die a thousand times
48 Encounter
49 Tragedy

phase Viz title
44 Point of no return
45 Impact winter
46 I believe he felt the same
47 Whomever it may be
48 Dream of an icy sleep
49 Punch through the thick clouds one day


As you must be aware, the scans bring the literal translation (as far as possible, obviously, once the structures between Asian and European languages are completely different).

Additionally, Kishiro does not entitle the volumes, but each cover has its own title. In volume 8, the cover title is Vampire combat force (and there is no possibility of mistake, as Kishiro entitles his covers in English - just check his site), but Viz entitled volume 8 as Angel's vision.

[Erigu]

The problem of changing titles starts becoming serious in volume 8:
[...]

Viz's translations are accurate, actually. ^^;
See, the thing is you translated the titles as they appeared in Ultra Jump, but Kishiro pretty much always changed those when time came to publish a new volume (by picking a quote from the actual text, in Gunnm Last Order... he's also changed all of the titles for the first volume of Gunnm Mars Chronicle, incidentally, although the new titles aren't quotes anymore, this time around). Viz simply translated the new titles.
(You can check those "new" titles in Japanese in that Wikipedia list I'm trying to maintain, by the way.)

Also, that didn't start with volume 8, but right off at the beginning of the series, actually.
(Ultra Jump -> volume)
"Phase;01 ガリィ再臨!!" -> "Phase:01 はじめに憶えているのは"
"Phase;02 戦士覚醒!!" -> "Phase:02 なにが起きたんだ?"
"Phase;03 人間の証明" -> "Phase:03 ロボットじゃない"
"Phase;04 影の挑戦" -> "Phase:04 思い焦がれていたんだぜ"
"Phase;05 存在の証明" -> "Phase:05 認めるかっ!!"
"Phase;06 火星の記憶" -> "Phase:06 テレビのスイッチを切るように"
"Phase;07 愛と絶望の谷間" -> "Phase:07 そして世界が残酷なのは"
"Phase;08 和解の時" -> "Phase:08 高く高く積んだ積み木の塔を"
"Phase;09 白熱" -> "Phase:09 なんの負い目があるだろう"
"Phase;10 希望と絶望の碑" (read "monyumento") -> "Phase:10 懐カシイ歌"
"Phase;11 宇宙へ" (read "sora e") -> "Phase:11 それでも"
"Phase;12 クズ鉄町に雨が降る…" / "Phase;13 罪の重さ" -> "Phase:12 夢の罪の重さを"
(couldn't find this one!) -> "Phase:13 ここが世界の頂上だ"
"Phase;15 友よさらば" -> "Phase:14 ロボットの国の王、そして"
"Phase;16 LADDER議会" -> "Phase:15 きっとまた会える"
"Phase;17 英雄の告白" -> "Phase:16 正す、世界を"
"Phase;18 女戦士ザジ" -> "Phase:17 戦場では"
"Phase;19 ピングの過去" -> "Phase:18 百年か…"
... Etc.

phase Viz title
44 Point of no return
45 Impact winter
46 I believe he felt the same
47 Whomever it may be
48 Dream of an icy sleep
49 Punch through the thick clouds one day

Thank you for that, by the way! I actually had those titles already (as well as those for volumes 1 and 2... I think), but I couldn't confirm them myself, so it's really nice to have another source. If you have the titles for other volumes / the rest of Battle Angel Alita: Last Order, I'm extremely interested! Again, pictures of the tables of contents would be simply perfect.

Additionally, Kishiro does not entitle the volumes

Now, that is true (... well, not for the original Gunnm series, but for the rest of the franchise, absolutely). And Viz's early decision to name all volumes "something Angel" sure got ridiculous real quick.
(Not exactly fond of their decision to change some names either, as that created a bunch of problems, and I'm not convinced it ever solved any...)

but each cover has its own title. In volume 8, the cover title is Vampire combat force (and there is no possibility of mistake, as Kishiro entitles his covers in English - just check his site), but Viz entitled volume 8 as Angel's vision.

Yes, I saw you used those illustration titles as volume titles in that wiki, and I can't see I agree, personally, since those are just... well, illustration titles.

[Sergio Nova]

Also, that didn't start with volume 8, but right off at the beginning of the series, actually.

I did not say it started with volume 8. I said it starts becoming serious in volume 8.

Thank you for that, by the way! I actually had those titles already (as well as those for volumes 1 and 2... I think), but I couldn't confirm them myself, so it's really nice to have another source. If you have the titles for other volumes / the rest of Battle Angel Alita: Last Order, I'm extremely interested! Again, pictures of the tables of contents would be simply perfect.

I can scan the tables of contents to you, but you will have to wait till the next weekend. I have just some minutes at home in the working days.

Yes, I saw you used those illustration titles as volume titles in that wiki, and I can't see I agree, personally, since those are just... well, illustration titles. .

No, I never used those illustrations as volume titles in that wiki. As it is clear, the cover titles are presented there… as cover titles, simply. The only thing presented as titles are the ones chosen by Viz.

[Erigu]

I did not say it started with volume 8. I said it starts becoming serious in volume 8.

Well, yes, but as a I explained, it didn't, really. You showed how different the original Ultra Jump titles and the new titles used in the collected volume were, but that difference had actually been quite drastic ever since the very beginning of the series (as seen in that short list in my previous post).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine what happened is that you were actually working from the Japanese volumes at the beginning, i.e. working from the same material Viz was, which is why that difference didn't bother you at the time. Then you switched to translating the Ultra Jump serialization, and thus ended up with entirely different titles from what Viz came up with.

I can scan the tables of contents to you, but you will have to wait till the next weekend. I have just some minutes at home in the working days.

That would be fantastic, thank you so much!

No, I never used those illustrations as volume titles in that wiki. As it is clear, the cover titles are presented there… as cover titles, simply. The only thing presented as titles are the ones chosen by Viz.

Ah, I should have phrased that better, sorry: it is specified that they're cover titles in the preceding paragraph, indeed. I'm just not sure why you'd list the illustration titles there at all. It becomes a mix of illustration titles and actual volume titles (in the case of the original Gunnm series and Haisha) and that seems needlessly confusing to me (plus, the novel is also called "The Useless Skill" afterwards).

Some other bits in that section that seem confusing to me:
* The overall section is named "volumes" but also covers things like the CDs and the video game
* The list we were talking about above is said to be a list of volumes, but the Gunnm Gaiden shorts are referred to separately. I realize it would be hard to present all those chronologically otherwise, but then again, maybe that in-story chronology should make for another list entirely, for the sake of clarity (especially considering Gunnm Kasei Senki will apparently go back and forth in time)? I seem to remember one of you (I don't remember the username, sorry!) translated the timeline included in the Gunnm Gaiden volume a little while ago...
* The Gunnm Gaiden shorts are referred to as "Extra Stories" instead of, well, "Gunnm Gaiden" or "Gunnm Another Stories" (sic)
* Bashaku Ondo curiously isn't included among those
* I'm not sure what you mean by "there is no Extra Story # 2"... Is it because there was no Gunnm Gaiden in the the second volume of the Gunnm Kanzenban (since you seem to be working from Glénat's translation of that edition)? I guess that would also explain why you set Bashaku Ondo apart, but that seems like an odd distinction to make
* "The titles in parentheses are the original Japanese titles, in the case of Hyper Future Vision, or the cover title, in the case of Extra Stories and Last Order." That doesn't quite work for Gunnm Last Order volume 14 (maybe because the English volume hadn't been released yet when that list was last edited?), and for the Gunnm Gaiden shorts, it's a confusing (IMHO) mix of references to the cover illustration of the Gunnm Gaiden collected volume and some of the cover illustrations of the Gunnm Kanzenban (except for Seiyakyoku, oddly enough... shouldn't that one be "Makaku and Gally", if we follow the same pattern?)
* "It would be interesting to know why Kishiro has entitled everything in English." That doesn't seem all that odd to me, especially considering those illustrations actually have Japanese titles, originally (I imagine he came up with English titles as well for the same reason he has an English section of his official website: he knows he has a fair amount of English-speaking readers)

Sorry, I know I'm super nitpicky. I really don't mean to annoy you guys or anything! Just some (hopefully slightly constructive) feedback. ^_^;;

[Sergio Nova]

I am in a hurry now, but as to Bashaku Ando (or Bashaku Ondo, whatever), it is listed after Last Order volume 2. As you yourself noticed, the idea was to list all the volumes chronologically. That said, once it is chronological, an entire volume like Another Stories (Lord! what a name!) is not there.

By "volumes" I do not refer exclusively to book volumes, but volumes of all kinds. That used to be more ordinary some years ago, when rock bands used to release their records in volumes (it is the case of Guns & Roses' Use Your Illusion, for example, but not only). English is not my first language, so I am far from being perfect, but the usage of "volume" to define records, videos and so on - and not only books - is routine in publishing English language industry.

Your interpretation of Extra Story #2 is correct. And, yes, the stories were retranslated after Glénat's editions, so they bare second level translations.

[Erigu]

as to Bashaku Ando (or Bashaku Ondo, whatever)

Oh, it definitely is "Ondo", for the record. ^^

it is listed after Last Order volume 2. As you yourself noticed, the idea was to list all the volumes chronologically.

Sure, I saw it, I just think it's a bit odd not to label it an "Extra Story" (or however you'd like to call the Gunnm Gaiden shorts) like the others. Was the rationale that, unlike the others, it wasn't included in Gunnm Kanzenban volumes (it didn't exist yet at the time, so it couldn't quite be! ^^ )? I find that a bit of an odd decision...

Another Stories (Lord! what a name!)

I know, right? ^^;
The German edition apparently changed that to "Other Stories". Much better!
Oh, and Kishiro's recent Ars Magna artbook used "Gunnm Other Stories", too. I'd say "Yay!", but the title wasn't corrected for Kōdansha's digital edition (which is the only available edition at the moment, in Japan)...

By "volumes" I do not refer exclusively to book volumes, but volumes of all kinds. That used to be more ordinary some years ago, when rock bands used to release their records in volumes (it is the case of Guns & Roses' Use Your Illusion, for example, but not only). English is not my first language, so I am far from being perfect, but the usage of "volume" to define records, videos and so on - and not only books - is routine in publishing English language industry.

Well, English isn't my first language either, so I guess I probably shouldn't comment further on that particular issue, haha!

Your interpretation of Extra Story #2 is correct.

Man, that's a weird decision. ^^;;

And, yes, the stories were retranslated after Glénat's editions, so they bare second level translations.

It's really odd how those Gunnm Gaiden shorts were never officially released in English...
I guess they could still be, but I kinda wonder if the current US publisher knows that digital versions of the original Gunnm series, Gunnm Gaiden, Haisha, Aqua Knight, etc, are now available in Japan. Last time I heard, they were waiting for Kōdansha to re-release the original series, so... er... maybe someone should tell them, just in case? ^^;

[Sergio Nova]

I guess they could still be, but I kinda wonder if the current US publisher knows that digital versions of the original Gunnm series, Gunnm Gaiden, Haisha, Aqua Knight, etc, are now available in Japan. Last time I heard, they were waiting for Kōdansha to re-release the original series, so... er... maybe someone should tell them, just in case? ^^;

Well, they are supposed to know, even because they are the same publishing company. Anyway, Ben Appegate, from Kodansha Comics, does follow this community, especially to see if we are not going to release anything after he banned us. So, if he did not know, he is learning that now.

[Erigu]

Sergio Nova provided me with almost everything I was looking for (thank you so much!).

Now, I'm just looking for the tables of contents of the five Omnibus volumes of Battle Angel Alita: Last Order, as I believe some (or all?) of Kishiro's short stories from Hito have been included in those, and I'm interested in the English titles they were given.
So if anybody around here happens to have them, it would be really nice to let me know!